BSN is a joke

macawake, MSN · Oct 11, 2017

Welcome to AllNurses.

Yet here I am getting trained in areas I have no interest in, and will never ever use in my career. And for what? So I can say I have 3 letters behind my name and the school and hospital can make more money? Its a joke.

I don't hang around any physician forums, but I have to wonder if they are in the habit of disparaging education the way I often see nurses doing.. While degrees aren't the be-all and end-all of our earthly existence, I guess I don't understand the negative attitude towards them.

I live and work in a country where nursing has been BSN-entry level since the 90's. If you want to work as an ICU nurse, OR nurse, anesthesia, ambulance (pre-hospital medicine) or as a midwife an MSN is required. You can also get an MSN in surgical care, medical care, psychiatric care, pediatrics, geriatrics, oncology, district nursing and probably a few more that I'm forgetting. The latter ones aren't required, but they are encouraged. They all involve APA format papers/research.

University studies are free for the student (funded through taxes) so education is basically just a cost for society. Yet someone still figured that education has value and that it was worth the cost....

Its a joke. I'm learning nothing of value.

You're the only one who can change that. Your education will be what you make of it.

My patients don't care if I can wrote a wonderful APA formatted paper. They just don't.

While it's true that your patients probably don't care even a little bit about your APA formatted papers, they surely benefit from having a research-literate nurse caring for them. Both the medical field and the nursing field is evidence-based. I suggest you spend this time to gain more knowledge regarding how to critically read research. That way you might even feel like you've gained or improved a useful skill. (I wrote gain or improve because for all I know, you already possess the fundamentals or more, but there's in my opinion always something new we can learn that will deepen our understanding of a given subject matter).

If you've decided to get this degree, why not make the best of it and try to enjoy what you can?

Good luck!

Accolay · Oct 11, 2017

I hear you. Being a fairly cynical guy and raised in the School of Hard Knocks I can relate. The BSN wont make you any smarter than you already are.

However, you must understand that behind the bachelors degree is a whole history of education in order to make you a well rounded individual, have some different world views from your own and you know: an education. Most programs want to make sure they don't release idiots to the world (although I would argue that some still are able to pass through). You need to get away from thinking that this type of education = job. That's not the point of higher education (or shouldn't be) and a problem I think many people have gotten hung up on in the higher learning debate in the United States. (If you'd like to admonish the cost of education in the US, that's a different debate). Beyond nursing many fields now need a bachelors degree to perform the exact same functions that they did before.

As you know, nursing is a broad field with a lot of different career paths, so that's why you're taking informatics, maybe statistics and have to write scholarly articles in APA format. (APA is a PITA, especially if you've previously been taught the MLA style-just ask me) Think of the formating as teaching you attention to detail- something that is endlessly applicable to floor nursing.

My biggest gripes about nursing school beyond cost was that we didn't have very much experience with a lot of care....but you could argue that a lot of this is OJT.

Sometimes you've got to suck it up, man. In the end, what are you going to do about it? Quit the program? Possibly derail some future job prospects without the degree while losing the money you've already sunk into the program? Find a different career?

Good luck in wrapping your head around it all.

WestCoastSunRN, MSN, CNS · Oct 11, 2017

Welcome to AllNurses.
While it's true that your patients probably don't care even a little bit about your APA formatted papers, they surely benefit from having a research-literate nurse caring for them. Both the medical and field nursing field is evidence-based. I suggest you spend this time to gain more knowledge regarding how to critically read research. That way you might even feel like you've gained or improved a useful skill. (I wrote gain or improve because for all I know, you already possess the fundamentals or more, but there's in my opinion always something new we can learn that will deepen our understanding of a given subject matter).
If you've decided to get this degree, why not make the best of it and try to enjoy what you can?
Good luck!

Great point, along with the rest of your post, macawake.

The ire and angst in posts like these always baffle me. While the rest of the healthcare world moves on with advanced education -- yes, such as pharmacists, occupational therapists, physical therapists -- the NURSES, who are in charge of managing the big picture of the patient's entire plan of care should not have to advance their education?

Social work does not magically show up where I work -- nor does a family counselor or any kind of counselor, for that matter, without ME or another nurse (rarely a doc) consulting said profession. I was also an ADN at the start of my career. While I was clinically proficient, I was not prepared to have a seat at the table in any leadership capacity. I had not been educated in what my nursing practice could look like in the community, in politics, in the bigger scene of Healthcare. I did not know how to read research. I certainly did not know how to conduct research -- both of which I now do, at work, along with my clinical bedside practice. (And yes, I think my patients will very much care about the research we do and the fact that their nurses know how to do it, APA format and all, since it is all to the end of bettering their outcomes).

So I have to disagree, OP. I think the BSN is quite valuable. While some nurses may not see the need for or appreciation of BSN prepared nurses where they are, that has not been my experience. And I don't want nursing to get left behind everyone else. We have enough challenges as a profession. Even if you think advancing nursing education won't help those challenges... do you really think NOT advancing it will help?

guest52816 · Oct 11, 2017

Actually, that's not true. There is A LOT involved in being designated a Magnet facility.
And actually, NONE of it involves how many BSN-prepared floor nurses there are.

Are you sure about that? I don't ask sarcastically, but when the large-teaching hospital I used to work at was trying to regain in its Magnet status, it certainly did count the number of BSNs in the bunch. And I was told it was because it was a goal, or benchmark (or whatever you want to call it) for the status.

guest769224 · Oct 11, 2017

if they do not have their BSN completed by 0000 on 1/1/18, they no longer have a job as a nurse in that hospital. Many are now pushing for MSN.

I seriously doubt "many" hospitals are pushing for their bedside RNs to be prepared at the Masters level of education.

FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN · Oct 11, 2017

I am a nurse at a major hospital where I have worked over a year after gaining my ASN. I have returned to get my BSN. What I'm not understanding is why there is such an ENORMOUS disconnect between what I do at work and the class work I need to do. It doesn'y apply at all. I have to take family care classes and informatics with very little practical application. I have to memorize all the rules of APA. My patients don't care if I can wrote a wonderful APA formatted paper. They just don't. It's like there is no appreciation in BSN education for what nursing is really about. At no time will I EVER do a CFIM on my patient or a PEEK readiness assessment. Get real. Where is the disconnect? Everyone I talk to say's the same thing about their BSN program, that it is completely useless. Who decided that nurses needed extensive training in social work and paper formatting?!?! I don't deal with social work. I have a team of social workers for that. At no time will I ever be in a patients home trying to improve the communication between family members ect. There are family counselors ect for that. It isn't my job! Yet here I am getting trained in areas I have no interest in, and will never ever use in my career. And for what? So I can say I have 3 letters behind my name and the school and hospital can make more money? Its a joke. I'm learning nothing of value. I would drop out and find a new school, but everyone I talk to has the same opinion about where ever they went. Basically healthcare has become obsessed with accolades, but forgot that those accolades were supposed to represent a level of expertise.
Why is there such an enormous disconnect between real life nursing and nursing education??!?!?

Sounds like you are finally learning everything that has been missing from your practice and you are not happy about it.

Respect for the profession is sorely lacking here.

klone, MSN, RN · Oct 11, 2017

Are you sure about that? I don't ask sarcastically, but when the large-teaching hospital I used to work at was trying to regain in its Magnet status, it certainly did count the number of BSNs in the bunch. And I was told it was because it was a goal, or benchmark (or whatever you want to call it) for the status.

I'm absolutely positive. The only thing Magnet addresses when it comes to degrees is that managers/directors should have a BSN minimum, and the CNO needs to have at least a master's degree, and if the master's degree is in something OTHER THAN nursing (such as an MBA), then she ALSO needs to hold at least a BSN. There is no mandate for Magnet eligibility that a certain percentage of floor nurses must hold a BSN.

There is a DIFFERENT initiative, that is separate from Magnet, in which 80% of nurses should have a BSN by 2020. This is through the IOM, I believe. Again, NOT Magnet.

I recently read a report looking at statistics of Magnet facilities, and I believe for all Magnet facilities, 60% of the floor nurses have ADNs, on average.

guest52816 · Oct 11, 2017

I'm absolutely positive. The only thing Magnet addresses when it comes to degrees is that managers/directors should have a BSN minimum, and the CNO needs to have at least a master's degree, and if the master's degree is in something OTHER THAN nursing (such as an MBA), then she ALSO needs to hold at least a BSN.
There is a DIFFERENT initiative, that is separate from Magnet, in which 80% of nurses should have a BSN by 2020. This is through the IOM, I believe. Again, NOT Magnet.
I recently read a report looking at statistics of Magnet facilities, and I believe for all Magnet facilities, 60% of the floor nurses have ADNs, on average.

Okay. Thanks for the information.

Wolf at the Door, BSN · Oct 11, 2017

BSN is not a joke. Someone should have told you not to waste your time with an associate's degree. Get the BSN and move on with your life. A lot of classroom work does not directly apply to many many professions. Ex introduction to music for a information technology degree. We all have been doing classes that are either boring or something you can never see applying in your daily life since grade school. If you don't want to get it, find a job that does not require a BSN. However they probably will sooner than later.

JKL33 · Oct 12, 2017

OO7:
1. How much information does our organization need to provide if more than 80 percent of our nurses already have at least a bachelor's degree in nursing?
ï‚· Describe what your organization is doing to maintain your percentage of nurses with a
bachelor's or higher nursing degree.
2. Does this requirement include leadership or only front line registered nurses?
ï‚· The action plan requested is relevant to all registered nurses in the organization,
irrespective of title or role.
3. Does our organization need to show an improvement in registered nurses obtaining a baccalaureate or graduate degree in nursing?
ï‚· The data need to show the organization's progress toward 80 percent of registered nurses
obtaining a baccalaureate or graduate degree in nursing by 2020. An explanation should be included in the assessment narrative when data do not demonstrate progress toward this 2020 goal.
4. Does this requirement include all registered nurses at all levels and settings?
ï‚· Yes.

Pasted from ANCC Magnet FAQ May 2017.

(Sorry, I've tried to fix the formatting a couple of times and it's still off).

Been there,done that, ASN, RN · Oct 12, 2017

"Why is there such an enormous disconnect between real life nursing and nursing education?"

Because nursing in a saturated field. Employers have the the option to demand higher education. You have an ASN degree, you are qualified and expected to... perform as a nurse with a BSN .

I have an ASN degree, I work from home making 6 figures. Spend less time being ticked off, more time marketing your skills.

Orion81RN · Oct 12, 2017

You didn't have to write papers in APA format in your ASN program??? We had multiple research papers in my program where APA was required. It's a shame your school didn't prepare you for that.