Artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped "allowing her to starve to death" The Vatican says " To starve her to death is pitiless" Most everyone agrees that it is one's right to refuse to initiate artificial feeding but somehow this situation "is different" How? The patient "starves to death " in both cases-so why has this one galvanized the WORLD? My husband read me a quote from the Bible -forgive me because I can't remember it in detail-it was something along the lines that a woman marries and leaves her father's house and her husband becomes her family....My husband is my POA I hope no-one in my family questions his motives -He KNOWS exactly what I want....I can't question her husbands motives-I know that some suspect foul play and state the results of a bone scan support this...That bone scan was obtained 53 months after she went into her coma-after her body suffered the effects of her eating disorders for a number of years.... Her present level of responsiveness does not pertain to this matter IMHO-she CAN'T eat naturally--she did not ever want to "be kept alive like that " and she can't state otherwise at this point...So- #1 can someone PLEASE make me see why this case is" DIFFERENT" and #2 How do YOU support your patients and their loved ones when they are agonizing over this decision? ONe thing I always ask is "Did your loved one ever give you any idea of what they would want if something like this happened" and if they did then I advocate that stance for that pt as much possible.......I believe that death is the last great trip we'll go on and we should PLAN it as much as possible.The greatest GIFT we can give to our loved ones is an itinerary...........

Specializes in Pediatrics, Nursing Education.

while i don't know that she would have choose this, it happened to her. i think that the whole starving her to death / dehydrating her is what is getting everyone upset. also, her husbands motives are malicious.

For instance, he wants to cremate her. She verbally said that she was afraid of cremation to friends / family and her catholic faith demands that she not be. However, he plans on cremating her upon her death. He also wants to bury the ashes in Penn, not in Florida where her family is.

Oh, and while she is alive... he refuses to let cards, pictures, flowers, or balloons in her room. he restricts family vistations. he refuses her dental care and other FREE services. she's developed painful contractures due to his refusing care for her. he's also refused to let her be treated with antibiotics when she has had severe infections. When the feeding tube was removed before, he refused to let her brothers and sisters in to visit her while she was dying. He also refuses to let her have other simple palliatve measures.

There's been other incidents in the past few years.

5 times at least Terri has had severe hypoglycemic episodes. They have all been after he has visited, gone in the room and shut the door and told staff to not come in. He's suspected of injecting her with insulin. Her blood sugars have always been stable due to the uniformity of her diet.

And after all of this... after even the initial collapse and living through that ordeal... she still won't die.

Makes you think, Hum? I think she's here for a purpose.

My big beef here is with the husband. He's outright trying to murder her.

She should have never had the tube placed in the first place is my opinion. But, now that she is and has been like this for 15 years... why should we kill her now? In a pretty painful way...

I know that others are saying that dehydration is an OK way to go. But from what I can see when I worked palliative care.... their mouths hurt. They got thirsty, gaggy, and sick. Their skin became dry and itchy and fragile. Of course, these were much fragile, older individuals.

Oh, BTW, the judge refused to allow her to take foods and water by mouth after they remove the feeding tube. A nurse has testified that she feed Terri by mouth multiple times without a problem... but she kept it a "secret" because of the wrath of her husband. He refused to let her have anything by mouth.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Nursing Education.
i agree. how many out there would want to stay alive in that state? take everything else out of the equation. i can't imagine anyone knowing that this would be the state in which they existed would say that they would rather live that way than to die.

but you're talking about killing her because of how she is living.

that is called euthanasia.... or "mercy killing."

and it is illegal in the us.

or at least, it was.

they just should not have placed the tube. period. now, the damage is done. she has lived with it for years. why pull it now?

btw, they did pull the tube entirely from her abdomen once before instead of just clamping it. then they had to go and reinsert it. i don't agree with that... that's very painful.

I think it is terrible how the government and news media have made a circus out of this, let her husband decide, if it were me I would not want to live like that, she may have expressed that very wish to her husband. I wish him peace with his decision and for Teri a painless death. For the rest of us, let us mind our own business and if any of us think it terrible then make a living will so your own family won't languish over such details.

_____________

You must make it your business. With this case lies the future of euthanasia & the rights of the disabled in this country.

I look at this woman and think...she is on fewer machines than I was! Now granted, I was not on life support for long. But where would I be without rehab?

And btw, my parents were put under tremendous pressure to disconnect me. No hope they said.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Nursing Education.
Artificial feeding can be a heroic measure under some circumstances - unfortunately in too many cases. If Terri is being tube fed can we not assume that she has no or an insufficient gag reflex. Being able to swallow a sip of water and being fed by mouth are not the same thing. How much are the taxpayers paying for her care? If her parents want to control her prolonged death, they should take her home. There are so many other patients that could use the money that is spent on her care - including prevention.

I don't know if she is on state aid.

I do know that she got a 1.2 million dollar malpractice settlement brought on by her husband. he alleged that the docs should have known that she had bulemia, and by failing to diagnosis it they caused her death.

There's been plenty of money to pay for her care according to her family. However, her husband has squandered it.

Over 600,000 of dollars of that money has gone to just ONE attorney to fight to get her feeding tube DC'd so she'd die. There are multiple attorneys, doctors, specialists, etc that have been paid out of that fund to assist with his case. Most of the docs that have seen her have spent an average of 10 minutes examining her before making their conclusions.

There's less than 50,000 left of the money... her husband has spent almost all of it, very little of it actually going to her care.

He also got a spousal settlement in the lawsuit and it is gone.

but you're talking about killing her because of how she is living.

that is called euthanasia.... or "mercy killing."

and it is illegal in the us.

or at least, it was.

they just should not have placed the tube. period. now, the damage is done. she has lived with it for years. why pull it now?

btw, they did pull the tube entirely from her abdomen once before instead of just clamping it. then they had to go and reinsert it. i don't agree with that... that's very painful.

it certainly is not an easy situation. we don't do a very good job in this country at talking about these things before the situation arises. i would be o.k. with having a feeding tube inserted if there was a reasonable amount of hope that eventually, i could rehab and be able to make decisions for myself. if within a period of weeks, it became clear that rehab was not likely, then i would want the tube d/c'd but i realize that this is not about me.

i do feel bad for her parents as i believe that what they are doing is only because they love her. if the horrible things they say about her husband are true, i believe that you get back from the world what you put out to it.

i don't believe that d/cing the tube is euthanasia. it would be euthanasia if someone were to administer a drug that caused her to die with the intent of causing her to die. withdrawal of an artificial means of feeding is allowing death to occur as it would naturally. i believe that she will die peacefully if the tube is d/c'd. i wish her comfort and peace no matter what happens.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Nursing Education.
It certainly is not an easy situation. We don't do a very good job in this country at talking about these things before the situation arises. I would be o.k. with having a feeding tube inserted if there was a reasonable amount of hope that eventually, I could rehab and be able to make decisions for myself. If within a period of weeks, it became clear that rehab was not likely, then I would want the tube D/C'd but I realize that this is not about me.

I do feel bad for her parents as I believe that what they are doing is only because they love her. If the horrible things they say about her husband are true, I believe that you get back from the world what you put out to it.

I don't believe that D/Cing the tube is euthanasia. It would be euthanasia if someone were to administer a drug that caused her to die with the intent of causing her to die. Withdrawal of an artificial means of feeding is allowing death to occur as it would naturally. I believe that she will die peacefully if the tube is D/C'd. I wish her comfort and peace no matter what happens.

Bob...

I can see what you're saying.

I just can't believe that her husband refuses to let her even try to sallow food and water per mouth. That also makes me think it is euthanasia. At least, a soft form of it!!!

I feel sorry for her parents also. I hope that her husband gets it! He's seems like a very mean fellow to say the least.

Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.

what really strikes me here is the amount of mis-information quoted in post after post on this thread /color]....the right to die issue should not be lumped in with the rights of the disabled....i want the right to determine how i want to live or die-i am not telling you what you should do with yourself.....terri's case has nothing to do with the disabled imo.i believe that she probably said yrs ago that she would not want to be kept alive by "heroic measures" i believe that includes tube feeding....nutrition delivered by any other route then p.o. is not "natural" by any stretch of the imagination.......when i was in my teens and early 20's i knew many young men and women that were killed in accidents ,overdosed or were suicides.the rest of us often spoke of endof life issues....remember karen quinlan? i bet terri schiavo was familiar with her,too....some of you just keep judging her husband according to your idea of honor and morals-believing everything you see and read on the net and tv,letting your emotions regarding end of life issues and your experiences color your view of her situation....i challenge you to look at the law involved....do you want the right to make end of life decisions for yourself or do you want the government to decide for you? if you think terri's husband is wrong and the government should keep stepping in to stop her from dying then you have to realize that this particular case is one in a million...you know if this type of decision was left up to the government ltc's would empty out in the blink of an eye...they'd put a lifetime cap on medical benefits and that would be that....the danger of this case is letting it set a precedent----each case is unique-we must remember that.....we don't want anyone having the power to step in and make this decision for us and our families....

ktwlpn - I'd like to gently point out that you are also judging this situation according to your idea of honor and morals and letting your emotions color your perception. Which is what we all are doing of course.

Disabled people ARE actually very involved in this case and they themselves feel that they are part of it. Terri is disabled - not brain dead. They fear the slippery slope of Peter Singer or others who think those who are a drain on their family's financial situation or on the government should do the right thing and die. I think it is wrong to tell people who are disabled that they don't have a voice in this matter.

I want the government to be involved to the extent that euthanasia does not happen - I do not believe in it.

steph

Please *speedily* act on these 2 constructive suggestions:

1. Pray to God, that people with a healthy conscience, will get their Congress-members to vote "Yes" for Disability Groups Support H.R. 1151 and S. 539 - "Disabled Persons' Lifesaving Habeas Corpus Review Act"

plus

2. Give some looong considerate thought to How *you* can help people, like Terri, enjoy a full life...

Artificial feeding can be a heroic measure under some circumstances - unfortunately in too many cases. If Terri is being tube fed can we not assume that she has no or an insufficient gag reflex. Being able to swallow a sip of water and being fed by mouth are not the same thing. How much are the taxpayers paying for her care? If her parents want to control her prolonged death, they should take her home. There are so many other patients that could use the money that is spent on her care - including prevention.

quote: "prolonged death" - may I offer that Terri, and others like her in similar predicaments, remain where they are - because life inside her particular coma state is much different than how you are perceiving it, currently. AND

thus,

do you honestly think your present negativities towards her, is encouraging individuals like Terri to choose exiting the mind-state she's occupying currently, and rejoin you in the Present moment? - towards what miserable end? - merely for needing to tolerate Care-providers with harmful attitudes, would be helping such people, how? Murdering can go by several different names, like Abortion, Euthenasia, etc. Is that, really, the kind of contribution nurses are being taught to "honor" now?

quote: " If Terri is being tube fed can we not assume that she has no or an insufficient gag reflex.

"Assume" - apt description, based on continued negative harmful pre-supposition/Beliefs.

Of course, how might a positive helpful person ably guide Terri in demonstrating to you, differently ?

quote: " If her parents want to control her prolonged death, they should take her home."

Were they given half-a-chance, her parents might accept their daughter back into their home. But they're not granted any beneficial choices, currently.

again, Please *speedily* act on these 2 constructive suggestions, I started my response with.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
ktwlpn - I'd like to gently point out that you are also judging this situation according to your idea of honor and morals and letting your emotions color your perception. Which is what we all are doing of course.

Disabled people ARE actually very involved in this case and they themselves feel that they are part of it. Terri is disabled - not brain dead. They fear the slippery slope of Peter Singer or others who think those who are a drain on their family's financial situation or on the government should do the right thing and die. I think it is wrong to tell people who are disabled that they don't have a voice in this matter.

I want the government to be involved to the extent that euthanasia does not happen - I do not believe in it.

steph

You're right we all have our own personal ideas that we want to put on this situation, and I know that's exactly what I'm doing.

To me "disabled" or differently abled requires some rehab capacity. Maybe there should be the category "unabled".

There are two sides to the slipperly slope. As you know I'm concerned about the other side of the slippery slope. That the rights of spouses and families to allow severely vegetative state cases to finish the process their injury/illness started and to die in peace and comfort, rather than live for years in a vegetative state.

I sincerely doubt we are moving towards a state of random euthanasia of persons with handicaps. I'm a bit confused about the slippery slope fears anyway, as people have been discontinuing feedings and treatments on vegetative patients for many years now. This case is unique in there's a fight between husband and parents.

(Again, note, I have some problems with this case and the time frame involved.)

what really strikes me here is the amount of mis-information quoted in post after post on this thread /color]....the right to die issue should not be lumped in with the rights of the disabled....i want the right to determine how i want to live or die-i am not telling you what you should do with yourself.....terri's case has nothing to do with the disabled imo.i believe that she probably said yrs ago that she would not want to be kept alive by "heroic measures" i believe that includes tube feeding....nutrition delivered by any other route then p.o. is not "natural" by any stretch of the imagination.......when i was in my teens and early 20's i knew many young men and women that were killed in accidents ,overdosed or were suicides.the rest of us often spoke of endof life issues....remember karen quinlan? i bet terri schiavo was familiar with her,too....some of you just keep judging her husband according to your idea of honor and morals-believing everything you see and read on the net and tv,letting your emotions regarding end of life issues and your experiences color your view of her situation....i challenge you to look at the law involved....do you want the right to make end of life decisions for yourself or do you want the government to decide for you? if you think terri's husband is wrong and the government should keep stepping in to stop her from dying then you have to realize that this particular case is one in a million...you know if this type of decision was left up to the government ltc's would empty out in the blink of an eye...they'd put a lifetime cap on medical benefits and that would be that....the danger of this case is letting it set a precedent----each case is unique-we must remember that.....we don't want anyone having the power to step in and make this decision for us and our families....

_______________

i guess someone needs to tell the disabled people in wheelchairs outside terri's "home" that this has nothing to do with disability.

There IS life in a coma. Perhaps it is easier for some health care workers to believe that there is no life. That the person is an object.

But a person in a coma IS alive. And they feel. And they perceive. I know.

You are not just a blob with no feelings, no thoughts, no caring. It isnt that way.

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