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Fox reports on shortage and legislation to bring in foreign nurses

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by Danih3000 Danih3000 (New Member) New Member

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You are reading page 6 of Fox reports on shortage and legislation to bring in foreign nurses. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

Anyausa has 3 years experience.

1 Article; 67 Posts; 2,713 Profile Views

Give me some statistics or your recent observation about how many foreign nurses got job INSTEAD OF american nurses educated here.

Looking forward to hear it, than we can talk about this problem more...

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ANnot4me has 5 years experience and specializes in Psych.

442 Posts; 7,301 Profile Views

This discussion has been going on for years. I just want to say that as an American immigrant in NZ, I am very much aware of this issue. Here in NZ, there are a great many foreign born nurses because most Kiwis have either gone overseas or work part-time. The pay stinks and the working conditions and professional development is a joke. And yes, many of our nurses are from Africa, India and the Pacific Islands; whatever they get here is better than going back home. Unfortunately, once these immigrants become citizens, they too leave this mess behind.

Tighter restrictions are being put in place as the union and the council have learned the hard way that the answer to the problem is not importing more immigrants (it is also very unfair to them as they are being exploited). While the system here is public, those who are running it are no less eager to save pennies than anyone else, so as pointed out here, it is cheaper to import nurses. It also dilutes the power of those who are trying to make changes in the workplace.

AS for new graduates, I just want to share that hiring large numbers of new graduates in any one facility is not fair to anyone. In my last job in the US, I worked in the ICU and for the first time in years they hired new graduates. It was a very large ICU in a teaching hospital and they had a great training program, but there were quite a few new grads. At the time, the "nursing shortage" was in full swing and these nurses knew it; they also knew they would not be staying very long.

Anyway, it created so many issues. Safety was compromised as many mistakes were being made, other nurses had to take the more complicated patients and provide support to the new nurses. Both the new and the experienced nurses became frustrated. The culture of the unit changed quickly and dramatically as there were so many younger nurses who had very different ideas about their careers than the many of the established nurses.

I think the answer to this requires a very big shift in the way business views nurses. The current situation might be different if rentention had been a concern ten years ago. Newer nurses may be cheaper in the short haul, but if there is no one to mentor them or the current nursing force is bruised and battered, you get this situation. Also, a trend analysis would probably show that a large number of new graduates will not be nurses within two years (especially if the economy recovers). While people need jobs now and are willing to put up with a bunch of things they normally wouldn't, nursing in not something most people do for very long.

Edited by ANnot4me
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VIXEN007 specializes in Med-Surg.

108 Posts; 2,001 Profile Views

They will allow it because of pure economics. Soon they will say that "imported nurses are doing jobs that American nurses won't do." The going will rate will drop to abou $10/hr for an RN. This will happen unless nurses advocate for ourselves and take back our practice!

I am sick of seeing techs insert NG tubes. You ask them why and they have not the first clue. They insert foleys and even suture. Some of them even provide dressing changes and RTs provide Nebs. Nursing is being outsourced one delegated duty at a time while we chart...

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601 Posts; 9,943 Profile Views

I think the best thing we can do is to stop talking about this issue. Its upsetting for everyone including me. I am getting offended by the things people are saying

I personally think this thread should be closed. The issue of employing colleagues from overseas to work in the US is always going to be a contenscious issue. This profession is unique in the fact we come from all corners of the earth each of us has an array of clinical skills, education and experience. No two nurses are the same. Its very easy in the current economic crisis to apportion "blame" and adopt a "them and us" attitude.

:thnkg:

This is the Internet, the only almost "land of true free speech," why on Earth would you want to silence your fellow human beings right to voice their opinions or state facts?

The best thing we should do is support American graduate/experienced nurses so that we remain employed.

We should close our borders to foreign nurses until every nurse wishing to gain employment can rightfully do so.

Am I so wrong to feel this way....

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601 Posts; 9,943 Profile Views

They will allow it because of pure economics. Soon they will say that "imported nurses are doing jobs that American nurses won't do." The going will rate will drop to abou $10/hr for an RN. This will happen unless nurses advocate for ourselves and take back our practice!

I am sick of seeing techs insert NG tubes. You ask them why and they have not the first clue. They insert foleysNursing is being outsourced one delegated duty at a time and even suture. Some of them even provide dressing changes and RTs provide Nebs. while we chart...

:yeahthat:

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601 Posts; 9,943 Profile Views

Give me some statistics or your recent observation about how many foreign nurses got job INSTEAD OF american nurses educated here.

Looking forward to hear it, than we can talk about this problem more...

You don't need statistics, just look around at your local hospital and the proof is obvious.

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601 Posts; 9,943 Profile Views

read the department of homeland security's ombudsman's report on the nursing shortage. importing international nurses does not take away jobs from american nurses.

we should welcome with open arms, and be grateful to the talented internantional nurses who want to work in america.

www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/cisomb_ead_recommendation_36.pdf

i couldn't disagree any more. . .

importing international nurses does not take away jobs from american nurses. . . what is wrong with this statement? think about it for one moment :uhoh3:

we should welcome with open arms, and be grateful to the talented internantional nurses who want to work in america. . . what about welcoming american nurses who wish to work in america...what is wrong with your statement?

i really try to understand everyone's point of view. . . i'm struggling to understand yours. . .

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mswhite specializes in long term care, psychiatric setting.

44 Posts; 1,403 Profile Views

I am a foreigner, but I agree with you guys. I was raised in this country and am a legal alien. I believe that nurses who were born and raised here should be hired first. i too am a new lpn graduate and been unable to find a job since I graduated on august 1, 2008. I went on my 3rd interview today and was finally hired (I thought I was hired the last time). the only reason why i thought i have a chance with this job is because the nurse who recommended me are good friends with the DON. The DON told me today as she interviewed me that she would not have hired me if it wasn't for her employee. they are not hiring new grads. I have applied for many many positions to no avail. this is a shame because although im not a citizen, I too pay taxes and have no intention of going back home to live (I will be naturalizing myself now that i'll be making more money since its costly to do). I do not take anything to offense to any of these blogs since they are true. good luck to you all.

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astn specializes in ED, Hyperbarics, EMS.

55 Posts; 2,324 Profile Views

I think the most relevant question here is not "are foreign nurses taking jobs away from U.S. nurses?" but rather "what is the market forces that are driving this recruitment of foreign nurses?" and "Why are business people and politicians pushing to import more foreign labor?"

I think it's a bad thing, not because I'm being xenophobic, but because from an economics perspective, it -is- a bad thing. Foreign nurses routinely work for less then their American counterpart, I don't have a citation, but I would be challenged to find significant evidence that contradicts that. Normally, the market would "set it's own rates," and if a job paid reasonably and had decent working conditions, it would be filled. If a job had poor working conditions or didn't pay appropriately, it would remain vacant. Either working conditions or pay would have to improve in order to fill that position. (In simple terms, either make the job suck less or pay more to compensate for the suck.) Free market economics -should- work in this instance, except now we are introducing an outside factor...

Many people say "foreign nurses are only doing jobs Americans won't." To which I ask: "Why won't Americans work that job? What is -wrong- with it?" Many new grads (myself included) are looking for work, and willing to go to great lengths to get it. So why would that job be passed over? So obviously, there is something wrong with a job (maybe it's Adak, Alaska, and noone wants to work on a remote island, or working an urgent care clinic on a reservation, where the pay can be pretty miserable...) and the market should CORRECT for that problem.

However, we are giving Hospital Administration and the "business people" that drive Medicine a third option. Instead of fixing the problem or "correcting" the situation (either via pay or some type of working conditions change, such as more paid time off,) we are allowing them to IGNORE the problem, and import a foreign worker to fill the position, usually for cheaper then it would be to have an American do the job. (So it's a double-win for the shareholder: Not only didn't they have to fix the problem, but they are saving money with the so-called solution.) How is that a good solution?

I have no contention with regard to the skills and experience of a foreign born medical professional, at least until they prove that they are not up to the standard. I know of many people of other nationalities that I would trust with my life, and at least a few Americans that I would not let touch me with a stethoscope, much less provide medical care. Individuals aren't the problem. It is a broken SYSTEM that is the problem.

It is bad HOSPITALS that Americans don't want to work at that are the root cause of this problem, and need to be fixed. Unfortunately for foreign nurses, that can probably not be addressed until we turn back to tide of foreign labor and force hospitals to correct these problems (or close) so that they can recruit and retain staff. I don't personally see this happening, because we're getting close to the point where you don't "get the government you deserve," but instead you "get the government you pay for," and our pockets aren't as deep.

I'm not angry at foreign nurses--they're trying to do the same thing we all are, work a job, have a better life, hopefully make a decent wage. But they're being put in the middle of a large problem, and instead of identifying the problem and working to correct it (from within and without,) the "anger" of the problem is being focused on them.

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FireStarterRN has 15 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

3,823 Posts; 23,967 Profile Views

The same market forces that send people to Walmart to buy items made in Chinese factories are the ones that drive the importation of cheaper, more desperate workers from abroad.

The American consumer wants lots of consumer goods at a low cost. The competitive marketplace favors businesses that can squeeze more out for less. Businesses that employ American citizens at a living wage, providing benefits, are at a disadvantage in the real world.

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20 Posts; 1,128 Profile Views

ASTN could not have said it better. If the healthcare industry in this country is saddled with growing problems, well then consider the importation of foreign nurses an added one. Outsourcing jobs will now become "insourcing", all because of the mighty buck. Cheapening this profession will sink this industry to levels never before seen. I'm glad that forums such as these serve the purpose of providing much needed info. so that those that want to enter this profession can get educated of what lies ahead of them and make informed decisions. I have serious doubts of pursuing this career. I really do. Graduating and not being able to find a job for a year or more?? What's going on here??!!:angryfire

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Moss1222 has 30 years experience and specializes in Education.

20 Posts; 3,515 Profile Views

Well, everyone's fears MAY be misguided if all I have been reading today come to fruition.

This swine flu may give nurses more jobs than they really WANT.

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