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Flu shot issue

Disasters   (74,505 Views 182 Comments)
by coolpeach coolpeach (Member)

coolpeach specializes in ER/Ortho.

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I am not sure how I feel about government/employers/schools mandating them. This is what I am thinking. If I get my kids shots, but another parent doesn't vaccinate their children. If those unvaccinated children get sick and come in contact with my children aren't my children protected from the illness because they got the vaccine. Isn't that kind of the point. If it doesn't work that way then it makes me question why I am getting it to start with. If it does work that way then the only people at real risk are those who didn't get vaccinated, and then it was their choice so be it.

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It does and it doesn't work that way. The idea behind mandating vaccines has very little to do with individuals. Vaccines are not 100% effective in each individual, so there's no way to know if your child would get sick from an un-vaccinated child who was sick.

Vaccines have more to do with herd immunity. With herd immunity, the spread of disease is interrupted to the point where it can be stopped nearly completely in a community. This protects the most people, including those who can't be vaccinated for health contraindications (immune suppression, allergies, etc), or those where the vaccination isn't 100% effective.

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14,847 Visitors; 2,642 Posts

Also - putting a live virus vaccination into your body certainly can cause "the flu". Why do we recommend that people with chronic illness, pregnancy, young children, etc (aka those that are immunocompromised) NOT get the live version of vaccines?

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The OP didn't receive the "live" virus, she had the shot, not the nasal spray.

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squirmals specializes in Neuro, Rehab, Ltc mng.

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Your hospital CANNOT require you to get the flu shot, this would be against your civil rights. Signing a consent form indicates you are agreeing to it, and an employer cannot force you to sign it... otherwise, what would be the point of getting consent?

Our new policy is if you don't get the flu shot...you are terminated. We have until 11/4 to keep our job.

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3 Articles; 13,492 Visitors; 915 Posts

My personal experience is that if the shot is not given properly people tend to get the red lump- i.e. proper IM technique. Hives however indicate a sensitivity to an ingredient. Soreness is normal, but not the red lump you describe.

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ddv106 specializes in School, LTC, OB, LNC, Instructor, etc.

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Hi,

I am hoping you are feeling better. First thing I would do is notify your employer. Second, Fill out an incident report. Anytime anything happens while on duty write an incident report. It protects you in the future. Third, find out how they would like you to proceed, that is to see their doctor on the list for workers comp or your own. Email them if possible so you have it in writing that they are aware and what they told you to do. Just a word to protect yourself, get everything you can in writing, so they can't say later that is not what they told you. Then follow through with the doctor. Years ago I had a flu shot when it was the Avian flu, I remember getiing very ill for about 4 to 6 months that I could not get back to myself. I have never taken a flu shot again, I have my docotr tell them that it is a detriment to my health and if they insist on giving me a flu shot that they sign a form taking total responsibility since I have had a negative reaction in the past. That gets them to leave me alone.

Again, I really wish you well and hope you feel better. Chicken soup is great for many things, try some. :nurse: :)

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holisticallyminded has 7 years experience and specializes in LTC, Medical, Rehab, Psych.

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Sorry folks, but there have been lawsuits in my state (WA) over this one. You can't force anybody here to get vaccinated. Apparently, it IS against our rights.

Since this is such a hyped-up issue, why not just vaccinate patients when they come through the door (with consent)? Well,......I guess they're trying that too.

Frankly, I'm always amazed and appalled at the number of health care professionals who will try to coerse other health care professionals into getting vaccinated. Have you not been paying attention to the spike in autoimmune disease in recent years? If you can have an immediate shingles flare, there's no telling what types of chronic immunologic issues can come of these unnecessary needle pokes. We just haven't been vaccinating long enough to know. You have to remember that innoculation is still quite experimental. We don't know enough yet about human immunity. And for all of you who claim to have the answers......you should know better by now.

I think it's really crappy that all of these facilities, thinking of their own liability, are willing to pit nurses against each other with this "we need to put our patients first" rhetoric. And nurses are falling for it!

Last I checked, this is a JOB and I'm the only one looking out for me.

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holisticallyminded has 7 years experience and specializes in LTC, Medical, Rehab, Psych.

5,216 Visitors; 160 Posts

"It is not the unvaccinated who are a threat to the vaccinated, but, since some of the vaccinated shed infective viral particles, it is the vaccinated who are a threat to the unvaccinated."

Oh thank you. You are 100% correct. The issue is that most people get all of their facts from the CDC (hmmm...conflict of interest?) and don't have enough information about how the immune system actually works. They rely on what has now become universal health care dogma. Kudos again.

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14,847 Visitors; 2,642 Posts

Sorry folks, but there have been lawsuits in my state (WA) over this one. You can't force anybody here to get vaccinated. Apparently, it IS against our rights.

Since this is such a hyped-up issue, why not just vaccinate patients when they come through the door (with consent)? Well,......I guess they're trying that too.

Again, there is no force. No one is getting strapped down and vaccinated. You're right, it's a job.....job's have conditions of employment. If you choose to not meet the conditions of employment, you are free to work someplace else.

Frankly, I'm always amazed and appalled at the number of health care professionals who will try to coerse other health care professionals into getting vaccinated. Have you not been paying attention to the spike in autoimmune disease in recent years?

Frankly, I'm always amazed and appalled at the number of health care professionals that make wild accusations about vaccine safety with absolutely NO evidence to back it up. Unless you have some study that I'm unaware of that show's a correlation between vaccination and autoimmune disease?

Surely, as a health care professional, you're not basing this wild allegation on merely the increase of diagnosis of autoimmune disease over the past years? Because even you must be able to recognize that it's difficult to even start to quantify the number of variables that have changed in the past decades

If you can have an immediate shingles flare, there's no telling what types of chronic immunologic issues can come of these unnecessary needle pokes. We just haven't been vaccinating long enough to know. You have to remember that innoculation is still quite experimental. We don't know enough yet about human immunity. And for all of you who claim to have the answers......you should know better by now.

We've been vaccinating in one form or another since the early 1900's....just how long is long enough before you agree with the overwhelming evidence that vaccines save lives?

I think it's really crappy that all of these facilities, thinking of their own liability, are willing to pit nurses against each other with this "we need to put our patients first" rhetoric. And nurses are falling for it!

Last I checked, this is a JOB and I'm the only one looking out for me.

Yes, it certainly seems that you are looking out for only you.

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linearthinker has 25 years experience as a DNP, RN and specializes in FNP.

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They made reg flu and H1N1 mandatory to continue employment last year. This irritates me slightly, but I'll go along to a point. If they bring it to me when I'm scheduled to work (nights), I'll take it, but I'm not coming in during the day to get it. I signed the consent form and sent it to employee health with a note that said I can't make their day time shot clinics, but if they offer a night time shot clinic, I'll be happy to roll up my sleeve. No response. I sent the same note with the consent last year, still haven't hear back about that one either. So I guess I'm not getting a flu shot, again. If they want me to have it, they will bring it to me. I dont really care either way.

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Assuming it was cultured in the customary fashion...are you allergic to eggs?

I can't help but wonder if it was cultured in something different, something you're allergic to...

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Your hospital CANNOT require you to get the flu shot, this would be against your civil rights. Signing a consent form indicates you are agreeing to it, and an employer cannot force you to sign it... otherwise, what would be the point of getting consent?

The worst they can do is take you off the schedule should a major outbreak occur, which would result in loss of wages on your part but that is worst case scenario.

Oh I forgot... take some Benadryl for those hives, and report all reactions to your OH nurse.

What about Nursing Students who would be required to discontinue their clinical practicums (might as well repeat the year in that case) if an outbreak of "seasonal flu" occurs in hospital? I'm against the shot (had a mild reaction to the H1N1 last year) but have to take it for fear of being asked to discontinue from the course. I printed off our consent form (co-ersion form) which states the vaccination I'm agreeing to is voluntary. To me, this too goes against my charter rights. Am I wrong?

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Every year the WHO surveilles which strains of flu-like illnesses are circulating around the globe and obtain samples for their virus banks. They then decide which of the strains should be in the seasonal flu shot which is composed of an H1N1, H3N2 and B strain. It takes approximately 6 months to manufacture the vaccine and this roughly co-incides with the start of the flu seasons in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres. Last year a strange entity called the H1N1 flu (which actually contains DNA from swine, birds and humans) showed up in Non-Flu season (suspicious huh?). Influenza is a cold weather bug which is why we get our shots in the fall as November to January are the peak months. The pandemic H1N1 vaccine had been in the manufacturing process one week after the first cases were seen in California and Mexico and barely made it to distribution because of the poor proliferation of the viral material in eggs. As well, there was no safety data from the H1N1p vaccine itself, the safety data was based on 'similar vaccine manufactured using similar processes. Canada and the US had different manufacturers (Canada's had a single supplier of vaccine containing adjuvant while the US had 5 suppliers of vaccine that did not contain adjuvant). Now the H1N1p antigen has been recombined, renumbered and is part of the trivalent seasonal flu vaccine. Now the 50% or so who thought the H1N1 virus was a hoax will probably end up getting it anyways when they get their seasonal flu shot.

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