BSN nurses - page 4
In recent lliterature it is stated that by 2010 all RN's coming out of school should be BSN's. Do you think this is reasonable in light of the nursing shortage?... Read More
Jun 8, '03Occupation: Registered Nurse Specialty: 10 year(s) of experience ; From: US ; Joined: Aug '00; Posts: 896; Likes: 83Originally posted by pama
Peaceful2100, Perhap I should have said "National statistics from the NCLEX-RN for the past fifteen plus years for first time candidates has demonstrated the ADN graduate scored better on the exam than the BSN graduate". I did not make the stats up, nor did I mean to ruffle feathers.
As I said in a previous post, it is time we all start working together. Once the RN is behind the name, we are all professional nurses, regardless of the degree or diploma.
Hopefully you will not complain that you are not being paid more. Afterall you will be doing the same jobs, have the same license, and will be on the same professional level as the ADN and diploma nurse. All beginning Registered Nurses should be paid the same.
Also based on the FACT and only based on the FACT that nurses do the same job and that pay is not where it should be for BOTH ADNs and BSN's I can PERSONALLY agree with the fact that it should be the same for what nurses have to do.
Jun 13, '03Occupation: student Joined: Mar '02; Posts: 118; Likes: 3I agree with Tonya.
I feel that there should be ADN's, and many are great nurses. BUT it is not fair to try and slight the BSN as the same degree because it's not. I am 33,000 in debt right now(and still going for more) Many people at my university fail the pre-reqs and have to take them at a two year to catch up(and get A's) At least where I am from, the educational level is higher at a 4 year institution. The only way for any profession to move up is with education. I cannot stand it when PT or Resp therapists act like they are above nurses or something, especially when I have the same if not more(in resp case) education. I do feel BSN's should be paid more. Just like people with masters degrees are paid higher in the same field as BS. Just my opinion though. Both ADNs and BSNs should make more money though!
Janel S. BSN
Jun 13, '03Occupation: RN Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience ; Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 4,763; Likes: 843Originally posted by sbic56
I wanted to reply to that post, but knew it was for you to do so. Thanks. I agree with your post 100%.
Jun 23, '03Occupation: MICU Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in MICU, neuro, orthotrauma ; Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 972; Likes: 349I want a BSN. Rather, I want a Master's. I do not plan on teaching nor do I wish to go into administrative work. I want to be a floor nurse or I want to start a practice where I would always have direct patient care.
None of this I could do if I had been required to get a BSN first. The ADN has afforded me, by shaving off one year of school and tens of thousands of dollars, a way into this profession.
The difference in the degree seems to be more about cultural courses taken, maybe a chemistry class and statistics, as well as some philosophy or government courses. All core courses both in ADN and BSN are taken in the same length of time. I think it's great that BSN's feel that a well rounded education is important to them, but I have a hard time swallowing that this makes them a better nurse. And with autodidacts being as they are (and I have found that most nurses are also autodidactic) I don't even think that a well rounded education means that one with a higher degree knows more about more aspects of life and society than does one with a lesser degree. A master's or higher is, of course, a different ball game.
All graduates must pass the NCLEX. The pass rate is essentially the same betwen the ADN and the BSN. As an ADN soon to be graduate, I do think it is strange that BSN's might not be offered more pay for their dilligence in completing a degree of one more year of schooling. I think this would ruffle some feathers, but I also think it would promt many to further their education. I realise this is a controversial statement, but I'm all about that.
Jun 23, '03Occupation: Nurse Consultant Specialty: 24 year(s) of experience in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych ; Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 3,105; Likes: 49All graduates must pass the NCLEX. The pass rate is essentially the same betwen the ADN and the BSN. As an ADN soon to be graduate, I do think it is strange that BSN's might not be offered more pay for their dilligence in completing a degree of one more year of schooling. I think this would ruffle some feathers, but I also think it would promt many to further their education. I realise this is a controversial statement, but I'm all about that.
Jun 23, '03Occupation: MICU Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in MICU, neuro, orthotrauma ; Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 972; Likes: 349Originally posted by sbic56
So why do you think not getting paid more would entice others to further their education beyond ADN?
I do not think that ADN pay should be lowered, rather the BSN pay should be increased. I think it's wonderful that I invested three years of my time for a degree which will afford me not only a career that I love, but it will actually afford a life for me. What other two year degree will start you at 50k a year? (my start pay). I will go on and further my education without the finanacial incentive, but I think it would promote the professionalism of nursing to have a differentiation of pay for the BSN, as so many would go ahead and take the bullet of more education = more money spent in school as there are financial rewards to doing so.
What do you think?
Jun 23, '03Occupation: Nurse Consultant Specialty: 24 year(s) of experience in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych ; Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 3,105; Likes: 49geekgolightly
First of all, I do think it is going to continue to be that nurses will be required to have more and more education. I was an LPN for years and decided to go on to get my ADN, not because I truly had a burning desire to do so, but because in my state, LPN's were being phased out of the hospital setting and I felt the security of my position was threatened. So, I have job security and a bigger paycheck. Do I feel like more of a professional? No, but maybe that is just me. Actually, I felt some irritation in regards to how some of those in "higher" positions than myself had changed their perception of my worth and ability when I had RN behind my name. After 13 years as a very active LPN, I did not feel like the year of school made much difference in how valuable I was as a nurse.
I don't necessarily think increasing educational requirements is a negative trend at all, especially with ongoing advances in medicine, we will need to keep current. I am still undecided as to whether the education, in and of itself, will improve nursing as a profession any more than it did in the situation I just described with the LPN's upgrading to RN's. True, some "within" saw me as "more professional", as I stated, but does more education improve the face the profession overall?
I don't think nurses in general are disrespected as a profession by the general public, though I do think their perception of us is a bit confused, because the role of nurses is so poorly defined or understood. I see nurses as being perceived as less instrumental in the actual outcome of a patients individual care and moreso being the taskmaster that follows the orders of the doctor. We know that is not the case, but if you ask the average person what a nurse does, they will probably tell you that they "pass pills" or know we take care of patients, but have no idea how crucial our assessments are to the patient's well-being. It is abundantly clear to them that the physician has an important job; what they do not realize is that he knows what he knows because most times a nurse has told him so and he then makes his decisions accordingly based on that info. One can't blame the patient/public for such a skewed vision of what nures are, when in the course of their stay what they see is their nurse emptying waste cans, fetching water and otherwise appearing to be in a subserviant, second rate role. This is not to say that we should not do these things at all. (Though, I do think we do way to much ancillary crap.)I just want to point out that because this is often what the public sees us do, they believe this is our main function.
Phew! So will education alone improve our image? No, but we'll be even smarter than anyone knows! Seriously, I think educating the public is every bit as important as requiring more education. Ya think?
Jun 23, '03Occupation: RN Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience ; Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 4,763; Likes: 843Some school's are still teaching the "RNs need to be BSNs" thing?
They are not current on what is going on in nursing.
Nursing jobs are now being filled by less qualified candidates. Years ago, it was unheard of for an LPN to be a DON. It's fairly common, now. UAPs are taking many jobs that were formerly offered to nurses only.
I lived in a county in AZ where an ADN RN was head of the county vaccination program, and was sent to a seminar to learn how to write for grant monies. It used to be that this was a strictly MSN thing.
The director of my dialysis unit is an ADN, and so is the ADON. There are no BSNs there at all and it is a large unit. Unlicensed techs are now allowed to do physical assessments and IV meds there. All of the nurses there have strongly objected, to no avail.
Employers want health care workers with less education and expanding scopes of practice and that's what's happening.
RNs can perform procedures that used to be done by docs only, LPNs can give IV meds, which used to be RN only, and so on.
This trend is not desirable or beneficial in my opinion, but it's what IS.
Jun 23, '03Occupation: RN Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience ; Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 4,763; Likes: 843to sbic56-
I don't agree w/ everything you said in your post, but what a great post it is.
Jun 23, '03Occupation: Nurse Consultant Specialty: 24 year(s) of experience in Obstetrics, M/S, Psych ; Joined: Jun '02; Posts: 3,105; Likes: 49Originally posted by Hellllllo Nurse
I don't agree w/ everything you said in your post, but what a great post it is.
Jun 23, '03Occupation: MICU Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in MICU, neuro, orthotrauma ; Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 972; Likes: 349My school certainly isn't teaching me that i should be a BSN graduate. I just want to be. I;m excited about being able to further my education. And it doesn;t matter if I am finanacially compensated for it. I do think that a financial compensation (pay increase when you get a BSN or higher) would be an incentive for many to go ahead and do something that they were putting off for logistical/real world reasons such as rent being paid every month or day care etc. etc.
just my $0.02
Jun 23, '03Occupation: RN Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience ; Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 4,763; Likes: 843My MIL is an RN, PhD, CNS.
I am an ADN RN.
Guess what? I make more than she does, mostly because of geographical area. It's not fair, but it's reality.
Sep 16, '03Occupation: Rn Joined: Aug '03; Posts: 16The Adn is an excellent way to start out in california we get to log more clinical hours than alot of the bsn programs but we as lifelong learners, need to naturally progress at least to a BSN if not a PHD the BSN is not as hard after the ADN is accomplished some courses you can take online if you aspire to a management position the BSN is a must we can all work together We are professional regardless of the Degree the Pateint is not going to ask you where went to school they just want a competent nurse.