EMT-P Question - page 2

I heard a rumor that nurses can sit for the EMT-P exam without going through the course as long as they hold an EMT-B and RN. It's probably different from state to state but does anyone know if... Read More

  1. by   ProfRN4
    Quote from pa-c in texas
    hahahahaha!!! you think taking an acls class or any of the other alphabet soup classes prepares you to effectively treat a patient experiencing a medical or trauma emergency? i can see nurses who have experience in critical care becoming paramedics with a little extra education, but when i talk about "education", i don't mean the four letter du joure seminars.
    very well said. they are kind of like apples and oranges (to some extent). the clinical training is much more intense for medics- they are not giving bed baths for their first semester. they are not one of ten students with an instructor, waiting to give out colace and multivitamins. they need to successfully intubate a certain amount of patients, as opposed to putting in a foley 'if someone needs it on the floor'. you can't compare.

    in ny, i don't believe you can challenge as an rn. i heard you can in pa.
  2. by   EricTAMUCC-BSN
    Speaking of alphabet soup, I wasn't aware that this was ALLPAs.com message board.




    Quote from PA-C in Texas
    HAHAHAHAHA!!! You think taking an ACLS class or any of the other alphabet soup classes prepares you to effectively treat a patient experiencing a medical or trauma emergency? I can see nurses who have experience in critical care becoming paramedics with a little extra education, but when I talk about "education", I don't mean the four letter du joure seminars.
  3. by   jwk
    Quote from EricTAMUCC-BSN
    Speaking of alphabet soup, I wasn't aware that this was ALLPAs.com message board.
    Actually, if you read the terms of service, it is open to all, not just RN's.
  4. by   EricTAMUCC-BSN
    Are you an RN?



    Quote from jwk
    Actually, if you read the terms of service, it is open to all, not just RN's.
  5. by   jwk
    Quote from EricTAMUCC-BSN
    I agree with Biffs25, there is no reason that an RN shouldn't be allowed to gain prehospital certification quickly and economically especially after taking ACLS. Mikey check out a thread from earlier in the nurse transportation forum. https://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84461
    bonemarrowrn makes a good point about this being an apples and oranges kind of thing. Although physiology and pharmacology are the same for everyone, the technical skills involved don't always cross over from the street to the hospital and vice versa. Most RN's don't get on their belly in the middle of the interstate to intubate a patient (much different than intubating on a stretcher). Most paramedics don't stick needles in preemies chests in the NICU. Most RN's probably don't know how stabilize a C-Spine and extricate someone from a crushed SUV. Most paramedics probably don't know how to balance NTG and EPI drips. Both groups should respect the other for what they DO bring to the table.

    That being said - although paramedics see every day what RN's do in the ER, the reverse is not always true, unless RN's participate in ride-along programs or actually work with an EMS crew. I agree that it should it should not take long for an RN to take some additional training for pre-hospital certification, since they hopefully already understand most of the physiology and pharmacology involved. However, the "especially after taking ACLS" statement indicates a poor understanding of the additional skills and different work environment involved in pre-hospital care. Do you really want someone who has intubated a mannequin a couple of times in an ACLS class attempting that on YOU? I doubt it. RN+ACLS does not equal fully trained paramedic. Again, we're back to apples and oranges.
  6. by   jwk
    Quote from EricTAMUCC-BSN
    Are you an RN?
    nope
  7. by   EricTAMUCC-BSN
    It is just plain arrogant to think that you are the only one capable of intubating or stabilizing a patient in different environments especially when talking to highly skilled and well educated professionals.



    Quote from jwk
    bonemarrowrn makes a good point about this being an apples and oranges kind of thing. Although physiology and pharmacology are the same for everyone, the technical skills involved don't always cross over from the street to the hospital and vice versa. Most RN's don't get on their belly in the middle of the interstate to intubate a patient (much different than intubating on a stretcher). Most paramedics don't stick needles in preemies chests in the NICU. Most RN's probably don't know how stabilize a C-Spine and extricate someone from a crushed SUV. Most paramedics probably don't know how to balance NTG and EPI drips. Both groups should respect the other for what they DO bring to the table.

    That being said - although paramedics see every day what RN's do in the ER, the reverse is not always true, unless RN's participate in ride-along programs or actually work with an EMS crew. I agree that it should it should not take long for an RN to take some additional training for pre-hospital certification, since they hopefully already understand most of the physiology and pharmacology involved. However, the "especially after taking ACLS" statement indicates a poor understanding of the additional skills and different work environment involved in pre-hospital care. Do you really want someone who has intubated a mannequin a couple of times in an ACLS class attempting that on YOU? I doubt it. RN+ACLS does not equal fully trained paramedic. Again, we're back to apples and oranges.
    Last edit by EricTAMUCC-BSN on Dec 29, '04
  8. by   flashpoint
    I'm not really sure where this thread went off topic, but we really are talking apples and oranges here. RNs and paramedics, while they can do many of the same things, have very different training. RNs are not trained to provide stabilization in the field and shoudl not be simply turned loose on the world to try and do it. Certainly with additional training regarding extrication, C-spine techniques, and other field skills, they could and should be allowed to do it. There is a huge difference between starting an IV in the ER and in the back of an ambulance bouncing over a bumpy country road. Paramedics should not be allowed to work in an ER setting without some additional training. There is a huge difference in doing the load and go and treat that it takes to get someone to the hospital and treating someone who is going to be held in the ER for several hours.
  9. by   jwk
    Quote from EricTAMUCC-BSN
    It is just plain arrogant to think that you are the only one capable of intubating or stabilizing a patient in different environments especially when talking to highly skilled and well educated professionals.
    Am I missing something here? Did I say this?

    Why are you trying to stir up an argument where there doesn't need to be one? I don't have a bone to pick with nurses, but it sure seems like you have one to pick with paramedics.

    Do you not understand that paramedics and nurses are two related yet different occupations?

    Perhaps you are in a facility where nurses routinely intubate. In case you're not aware, that would be the exception, not the rule. Conversely, paramedics are expected to intubate, and do so quite often.

    Intubation is something you're exposed to in ACLS class. You don't gain proficiency there. I'll stand by my statement that RN+ACLS does NOT equal fully qualified paramedic. And neither does paramedic equal RN.

    Is my logic flawed here? What am I missing? Even biff in his/her post says that an RN would require additional training. Obviously they don't need a full paramedic program. But they can't step from nursing school to an ambulance either.
  10. by   EricTAMUCC-BSN
    Frankly I find it very offensive when one profession or another ridicules nursing and tells us what we can and can't do and how our profession should operate.

    HAHAHAHAHA!!! You think taking an ACLS class or any of the other alphabet soup classes prepares you to effectively treat a patient experiencing a medical or trauma emergency?
  11. by   bobnurse
    Well being both a paramedic and nurse I see the competition between both professions almost on a daily basis....If medics got paid what they deserve, I'd stay a medic........And its the reason many, and i say many medics are taking fast track courses to become nurses, after a while, you gotta feed the family. And if your in a state where medics get paid what their worth, i applaud you.

    Nurses forget they are trained in IN-Hospital care, and medics are trained in Pre-Hospital care. Both very different environments. I teach ACLS and nurses have to be reminded that they are not trained in pre-hospital care. If you ask any nurse, they'll stop and render aid to MVA's without hesitation, but when you ask them what they'd do, they no nothing of scene safety, C-spine stabilization and so forth. I'll give them a scenario about gross trauma with major hemorrhage (victim DOA), and they'll want to do cpr on them. So nurses will read this and say "I know what to do," well if you do, your a minority, not a majority.

    Medics cannot function in a hospital without IN-Hospital training. Someone referenced Colace..There are a lot of side effect to giving colace as well.......

    I think most of the argument between medics and nursing is a result of not engaging in the difference between the two fields in school. In nursing school or medic school are there any real comparisons between the two. So nurses feel they can do what medics can do and medics think they can do what a nurse can do. Ask a nurse to properly extract a MVA.......Ask a medic to set up a PCA.........

    I work with many nurses who can intubate, and intubate well.....But once again, your a minority........So dont argue with the majority (paramedics). Fell lucky that you have the training that most nurses are without.

    As far as ACLS..........Its just a brief introduction to airway management.....If your facility allows you to intubate after taking a ACLS class, I'd like to know where that is, so i know where to stay away from. Not to knock ACLS classes, some do a good job teaching airway managment, and some do bare minimum.......We happen to do a very good in-depth airway managment station, but I still wouldnt say your able to intubate afterwards. To be honest, I'd say most respiratory therpist arent qualified to intubate anymore, as more and more schools dont allow actual intubations anymore, only manikin practice.....Thats why many organizations go to the "Most experienced Person should provide airway management."

    To be honest, this argument gets old and has been going on for years and years. I would hope all nurses go through pre-hospital training, we'll need it for the next huge disastor or terroist event.....The more the merrier......

    This is no different than the RN-LPN argument.....or the LPN-CNA, and etc.....
  12. by   bobnurse
    Sorry about the typos.....at work in a rush........and when i say "more the merrier," im talking about nurses taking pre-hospital courses...Not more disastors and terrorist events........I dont want a thread started on a misunderstanding. Lol
  13. by   medic1488
    I guess I'm just lucky that the hospital based EMS system I work for the nurses and medics have excellent relationships. We respect them, they respect us. They know there limitations, and we know are limitations. And we help each other out whenever possible. (we do provide ED care when not on calls, inlcuding med pushes (only meds within our normal scope of practice), IV's, intubations, and the such. In fact, I'll even help the RN's clean patients and rooms if not engaged in other activities) I dont know if thie level of respect comes from the fact that we are in the ED, willing to help out, and see the other side of patient care, but if it is, maybe more systems should have medics coming into the hospitals and RN's out to the field.

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