DNP v. MSN/ARNP

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Daughter finished BSN soon, wants to be FNP. I say she gets MSN (doable part-time in 2.5 years), she says DNP or bust (4 years, UGH). We are just thinking, as I said experience first, not straight to school; she agrees.

Is the DNP needed if no desire to teach? She's afraid she won't be competitive for jobs, I say the DNP is a waste of time and additional debt.

Would love some real world stories and advice, please. She wants to be clinical but then sometimes I even wonder about that lol. I have MSN Clinical Nurse Leader and pull 95K in West Florida, and they start NPs at that around here, sad, but true. Considering how much NPs can likely bill, not sure I understand that.

Thanks for the feedback!

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Many schools are just adopting a straight dnp model these days. So she may not have the option in some cases. I don't believe there is a financial advantage to dnp outside federal work that tends to be more inclined to pay based on education level. It might give her an edge next to the msn new grad she's up against for a job, but that imo is the only advantage. The way dnp is currently designed, I don't believe for a second there's any actual clinical advantage.

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Agreed djmatte, I have looked at a few of the MSN v. DNP actual course catalogs, and none of it convinces me that the DNP makes a better clinician.

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Specializes in NICU.

No, she'll definitely be competitive. It will depend more on the quality of the program and nursing background that will make her competitive more than anything else.

The benefit of the DNP from a clinical point of view is that generally you get more clinical hours, usually 600 or so in a MSN and 1000 or so in a DNP (YMMV). This is no doubt helpful, although maybe not worth a full year of schooling.

I'm not sure where she's getting that having a DNP will make her more competitive...certainly having your BSN makes one more competitive over ADN, but that hasn't crossed over into the NP market.

Suggestion for her might be to get her MSN and then after a few years of practice, get the DNP on her employer's dime. She'll be able to get into the marketplace sooner and make more $$ sooner as her years of experience of a being a MSN NP will be more than a DNP, thus increasing her overall career earning power. That is what I decided to do. I haven't done my DNP yet, but eventually will do so.

eta: You're right about Florida salaries. They're abysmal for NPs there. My suspicion is that it is in part due to the strong physician lobby there- it's only since last year I think that NPs were even allowed to prescribe schedule IIs- last state in the nation to do so. I did notice that when I moved from a restricted practice state to a full practice state, my salary jumped up significantly, around $30k or so. Part of it was moving to a HCOL area, but not enough to make up that much.

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Schools are transitioning to DNP programs versus MSN programs. I would look at how much additional schooling you would need to do for a DNP after an MSN then do a cost benefit analysis. Maybe you will end up spending more time in school if you do a MSN and then DNP instead of just straight to DNP, but factor in working and salaries while completing both degrees.

I would also encourage her to apply to both types of programs and then make a decision once she is accepted and knows tuition, etc.

My aunt is a head pharmacist at a large metropolitan hospital. She obtained her Master's of Pharmacy back when that was still acceptable instead of doctorate. Now PharmDs are pretty much the industry standard. She constantly kicks herself for not just getting her doctorate in beginning because it would have been a lot easier. She is a high level pharmacist, but now she has to go back to school even though she could probably teach pharmacy classes at a uni. She could also be making a higher salary with a doctorate. Obviously, it is not nursing, but you could see how this where nursing might end up.

Just food for thought.

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No, she'll definitely be competitive. It will depend more on the quality of the program and nursing background that will make her competitive more than anything else.

The benefit of the DNP from a clinical point of view is that generally you get more clinical hours, usually 600 or so in a MSN and 1000 or so in a DNP (YMMV). This is no doubt helpful, although maybe not worth a full year of schooling.

I'm not sure where she's getting that having a DNP will make her more competitive...certainly having your BSN makes one more competitive over ADN, but that hasn't crossed over into the NP market.

Suggestion for her might be to get her MSN and then after a few years of practice, get the DNP on her employer's dime. She'll be able to get into the marketplace sooner and make more $$ sooner as her years of experience of a being a MSN NP will be more than a DNP, thus increasing her overall career earning power. That is what I decided to do. I haven't done my DNP yet, but eventually will do so.

eta: You're right about Florida salaries. They're abysmal for NPs there. My suspicion is that it is in part due to the strong physician lobby there- it's only since last year I think that NPs were even allowed to prescribe schedule IIs- last state in the nation to do so. I did notice that when I moved from a restricted practice state to a full practice state, my salary jumped up significantly, around $30k or so. Part of it was moving to a HCOL area, but not enough to make up that much.

I definitely agree with all the points on here. I spoke to some employers who said that DNP graduates looking for jobs will have a higher salary than MSN graduates. But, if you are already working as an NP with an MSN degree and go back to school for your DNP while working, your salary won't jump any higher. Also, keep in mind that every DNP program has a different focus. For example, Emory University has 2 DNP tracks, Health Systems Leadership Track and Population Health. I currently attend Columbia University, where the DNP has a heavy clinical focus. The extra clinical hours is what makes students competitive applicants for jobs.

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Specializes in NICU.

I agree that some employers will pay more for folks with a DNP vs a MSN, but not the vast majority of them. I also agree that getting the DNP post-masters will likely not net them anything extra. However- most employers (unless they're terrible?) will pay their employer more each year because of their years of experience that they bring to the table and so the MSN grad will have one year up on the DNP grad. One can gamble and hope that a hospital or clinic will pay more at the outset for a DNP, but this isn't universal whereas the latter one is much more likely to occur.

Overall, if you want to go straight through and get a DNP, go for it. At the end of the day it probably won't make a huge difference in pay- but it is something to consider.

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