Overburdened E.R.'s

psychonaut · Jun 16, 2009

I've stopped washing my hands so much and caring so much about avoiding bugs. Today at the mall I touched a bazillion things, I ran my hands all along the grab handle on the escalator, and then went and ate tacos with my bare fingers. I'm trying, LOL.

The tone is exaggerated for humor, but I essentially agree with the basic idea. I am Jeckyl/Hyde with this in my personal and professional lives; hygienically hyper-vigilant to the point of obsessive in my professional role as NICU RN. I have clashed with my unit hierarchy regarding personal use of ppe and it's use by families. Me and my fellow nurses are of one mind in wishing we could require much stricter IC precautions, which have been greatly reduced in the name of "family-centered" care.

However, in my personal life, I embrace the concept that there can be such a thing as "overly hygenic." The immune system exists to be challenged. I live by the rules of personal hygiene my mother taught me as a lad: wash hands before eating, after the bathroom, cover coughs and sneezes, etc. etc. No antiseptic wipes on the shopping cart handle (and don't lick it, either). You can smooch your dog on the head, just don't make out with it. You don't need to rub cal-state on your hands every 5 minutes (again, completely different story at work).

No, psychonaut, this is where anger about inappropriate actions taken by a student nurse, Multicollinearis, was criticized by an infection control oriented, aware Public Health Nurse. That callous viewpoint expressed in post #4 of this thread, demonstrates how social consciousness needs to be inspired in nursing education, and those without it, who purposely cause illness in the unsuspecting public, need to be chastised.
I hope that the student realised the impulsive errors she made, and that it was done due to selfishness, immaturity, and lack of regard for requirements that public health policies/protocols implemented during a pandemic, demand. I suggested that she obtain counseling, and certainly hope that she follows that lead. However I realize that untoward reaction formation could occur in someone so self involved and irresponsible.

Snideness followed by a smiling icon = passive aggressive to me, but whatever.

You all could be right, p95 masks and ppe may be required to go pick up some McDs in the drive through, and those of us that think you have gone off the deep end may be leading us all to the end of civilization as we know it (see, exaggeration to make a point, I can do it too). I've read Stephen King's "The Stand" probably 4-5 times in my life, I guess I should know better.

This flu situation bears watching, but as things stand now, I won't be queing up for flu vaccines or Tamiflu. More for the rest of you!

EDIT: ...and I realize I'm helping to steer this thread off topic, so I won't belabor my point any further here. I'll leave you to your Pande-noia (ha!) in peace.

lamazeteacher · Jun 16, 2009

Quote from Psychonaut's post #12:

"This flu situation bears watching, but as things stand now, I won't be queing up for flu vaccines or Tamiflu. More for the rest of you!

EDIT: ...and I realize I'm helping to steer this thread off topic, so I won't belabor my point any further here. I'll leave you to your Pande-noia (ha!) in peace."

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As someone thought Native Americans said, long ago, "you speak with forked tongue.....", I believe the above quote is written of two minds. (Not that I would even think that you have schitzophrenia.....Ha!)

That's humorous, by the way. I didn't have the sense of being snide in my response (post # 11), and I can be aggresive when I care enough to share my feelings here - not "passive" by any means - that's just not who I am, and I've met enough of the others (like my ex-husband), to know!

I obsessively practise hyperhygiene to the extent that Jergens sends me thank you notes. (a little humor there)

I do try to keep the topic in mind, and throw in a comment about ERs here, so I'd like to mention that possible ER overburdening (? due to people there with s/s of flu, although I asked the nurse if they were getting many of those, when I went there by ambulance having a GI hemorrhage, then wasn't seen for 2 hours) in late April, and she said "no".

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Jun 16, 2009

The lack of comprehension and conscience exhibited by your post, indicates that finishing school successfully is more important to you than using the education you were provided, to provide good, knowledgeable nursing care for sick people.
Not only have you exposed yourself to myriads of microorganisms, you have deposited them on escalator handrails for possibly immunocompromised people to share. They will become ill and possibly lose the rest of their lives, due to your recklessness. All you might lose, is some time in your last semester!
You may not like what you see, and hopefully you'll mend your ways when you take some time to look at yourself honestly and reevaluate your career goals, possibly with the assistance of a counselor. Turning your back on others makes you feel worse about yourself.

I'm not even going into the other reasons why I want to catch it this summer rather than during the fall. You know, Lamaze, all I really said was that I wasn't washing my hands as much as I previously did (which was a lot), that I ate lunch at the mall without washing my hands, and that I sat next to a coughing sick woman at my doctor's office. That's it. Your original response made me 1) laugh and 2) be concerned about you.

Back to the regularly scheduled thread.

cardiacRN2006, ADN, RN · Jun 16, 2009

I too had hoped I got the swine flu now instead of when it returns in the fall. I too gave it my best shot.

I also am not a OCD freak about washing my hands every milisecond.

The type of crazed paranoid that exists in some people actually frightens me! Seriously, take a deep breath (watch out, microbes in that air!) and relax!

For Pete's sake!

indigo girl · Jun 16, 2009

You're all making me smile. We are all a little nutty over here, and it's probably going to get worse...

Might as well laugh while we are watching the pandemic evolve.

We can't be serious all of the time, but we are going to be learning alot about influenza,

indigo girl · Jun 16, 2009

Interview with influenza expert Greg Dworkin

Dr. Greg Dworkin is Chief of Pediatric Pulmonology and Medical Director of the Pediatric Inpatient Unit at Danbury Hospital in Danbury CT, where he has been in clinical practice for twenty years.

http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-10722-Orlando-Science-Policy-Examiner~y2009m6d15-Interview-with-Dr-Flu

... flu pandemics often come in spiky waves and it's usually the second or third wave that's the worst. The second wave of the great flu pandemic of 1918 had a 30% infection rate (IR) and 2.5% case fatality rate (CFR). The 1968 pandemic was milder, but still would be classified as moderate, like the current one. So far it's way too early to say what the IR and CFR on this latest strain will be, although there's some reason for cautious optimism that it will, at worst, resemble the '68 pandemic. But if it's only a little more virulent than the 1968 outbreak, 90 million Americans would get real sick -- commerce and essential services would grind to a halt. 45 million might require medical care straining health services to the limit. And 200,000 people would never recover. So this is serious business all the way around and that's why those of us in the public healthcare community are so concerned about a second or third wave.
My biggest worry is complacency, people assuming that this pandemic is just a bunch of media hype, that it's over, that the danger is past. Look at the table below, let those numbers sink in for a moment: even in the milder pandemic scenario, hospitals and clinics would have to stack bed-ridden patients like cords of wood, up and down the hallways, over flowing through the waiting rooms, and out into the parking garage.
We don't know what the virus will look like in the fall, and medical facilities are swamped as it is (every day is a crisis day in your local ER.) If this strain turns out to be less virulent than those scenarios, and we all hope that that will be the case, then most people can care for themselves at home without prescription medicine, or get by with a visit to their primary care doctor. But those instructions and that information has not been widely disseminated. The best way to stay abreast of information is to check with reliable sources like CDC's flu page and your local health department. But that's information you have to go get.

Editorial Team / Admin · Jun 16, 2009

Guys, once a post has been edited, please do not add back the part edited in another post. There is a reason staff edit posts that have been reported as TOS and why we thus remove some parts of posts that serve to derail threads.

This topic brings out passionate responses, frivolous responses, serious responses, and yes, even some responses that make us see red.

Let's just debate the topic, not make it personal, o.k.??

Thanks.

indigo girl · Jun 16, 2009

Swine flu stresses nursing staff at Winnipeg hospitals

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2009/06/16/mb-swine-flu-nurses-winnipeg.html

The swine flu pandemic is taxing the nursing staff at some Winnipeg hospitals, which are scaling back vacation time and retraining members for intensive care unit work.
The head of the Manitoba Nurses Union, Sandi Mowatt, said it's been a particularly stressful time for nurses at St. Boniface hospital, where most of the flu cases are being treated.
"They have a strain on their ICU bed situation and required some more nursing help with that. So they have seconded nurses in their own hospital who have previous intensive care experience to work in their ICU," she said.
Mowatt said nurses who haven' t worked in ICU for a while will be receive training before they care for patients.
"It's certainly disconcerting for the nurses who haven't worked in ICU for a little bit to come and work in an area that they may not be familiar with at this time, but having said that, nurses are the consummate professionals," she said.
The strain at St. Boniface has been heightened by an increased demand for care at Victoria Hospital. Consequently, a number of St. Boniface nurses have had to be posted at Victoria to help with the workload, Mowatt said.
With nursing resources stretched thin across the city, the union has put a hold on some vacation requests. Nurses are being closely monitored to ensure they are receiving enough down time, however, said Mowatt.
The Winnipeg health region may also look at moving some patients to another health region, such as Brandon, to ease the pressures, she said.
Dr. Joel Kettner, Manitoba's chief medical officer of health, is urging people to stay home from work for a full week if they feel they have even a mild case of the flu. That would help limit the spread of the virus, he said.
"It's not like you're struggling for five or six days with the flu and it's just not getting better. We're talking about people who become very ill, very quickly within the first 24 or 48 hours."

(hat tip FlaMedic)

lamazeteacher · Jun 16, 2009

I'm not even going into the other reasons why I want to catch it this summer rather than during the fall. You know, Lamaze, all I really said was that I wasn't washing my hands as much as I previously did (which was a lot), that I ate lunch at the mall without washing my hands, and that I sat next to a coughing sick woman at my doctor's office. That's it. Your original response made me 1) laugh and 2) be concerned about you.
Back to the regularly scheduled thread.

You said that you also used your contaminated hands to touch as many parts of the hand rail of the escalator at a mall "LOL", which induced my concern about all the other people who touched those parts of the handrail, and about your state of mental health. That's why I suggested that you seek counseling.

My original response was serious and should not have inspired levity, or concern about me. Your reaction seems inappropriate, but then I'm an old fuddy duddy. I do tend to take things seriously, due to my extensive years of experience in the delivery of health care. Pandemics are very serious situations.

I wish you the best in your future career path.

cardiacRN2006, ADN, RN · Jun 16, 2009

You said that you also used your contaminated hands to touch as many parts of the hand rail of the escalator at a mall "LOL", which induced my concern about all the other people who touched those parts of the handrail, and about your state of mental health. That's why I suggested that you seek counseling.
My original response was serious and should not have inspired levity, or concern about me. Your reaction seems inappropriate, but then I'm an old fuddy duddy. I do tend to take things seriously, due to my extensive years of experience in the delivery of health care. Pandemics are very serious situations.
I wish you the best in your future career path.

No, that's not what multi said or implied-at all. Multi said that they wanted to touch the escalator so that THEY could get sick now, instead of later.

I agree. I wish I got the swine flu when it was at my hospital, instead of when it comes back and kills me in fall. I wish my immune system had a chance now.

If touching the escalator rail is so bad that it requires a consult to the psych dept, then there is something wrong.

I'm sorry, but if people are so fragile and sick that touching the hand rail will kill them, and a nursing student, who is dedicating her life to becoming a nurse is made to feel like a killer due to touching said rail, then perhaps those sick, frail debilitated people shouldn't be going to the mall.

Silly. And waaaay overreacting.

Editorial Team / Admin · Jun 16, 2009

Gonna close this thread for a time out.