Future looks bleak for CRNAs

Bumex, DNP, NP · Apr 13, 2017

Superking, first rule of research- use current data. Things change drastically with time. Plus there is A LOT of current literature to refute this article.

superking · Apr 13, 2017

Yes.You are true.Current data is different.Like I was reading 2012 Merrit Hawkins Review that said CRNA salary surpassed Primary care physician salaries. BUT currently that's not true.Family physicians and pediatricians jobs start at 225k average while Crna starts at 160k .

manusko · Apr 13, 2017

There's are now studies pointing to the fact that many CRNAs will retire in the next 10 plus years.

twinsmom788 · Apr 14, 2017

Better pick something else then.

You say you are a FMG...have you taken and scored WELL on Step 1 and 2? If not, then I might understand why you are pursuing a BSN. You certainly have a long way to go to be a CRNA. I would recommend concentrating on your current studies and then worry about a career.

twinsmom788 · Apr 14, 2017

I just read your other posts that you have taken the USMLE and had acceptable scores...why are you not in a residency then and working as an MD??

superking · Apr 14, 2017

I have acceptable scores for primary care residencies but not for Anesthesiology. And Anesthesia is my passion. That's why I want to do CRNA.

NurseDiane · Apr 14, 2017

There is always a battle between anesthesiologists (MDA) and CRNA's. MDA's feel insulted that nurses do the same jobs that they do, and sometimes they feel that CRNA's are "taking away" business. However, they don't complain about supervising 3-4 CRNA's during the day, sitting on their behinds in the break room & talking to their stock broker on the phone a good part of the day. If they had to be in a room, doing a case, they wouldn't be doing that. CRNA's enable an anesthesia group to spend far less money on employees and make lots more money because they can do more cases for less money then if they hired MDA's in all of the CRNA positions. Sometimes, MDA's work very well with CRNA's as a team, and sometimes there is palpable tension between some MDA's and CRNA's---and it isn't CRNA directed at MDA, it is MDA directed at CRNA.

I used to be a CRNA. Have been an RN since 1987. There have been SO MANY CHANGES in healthcare. The rules & regulations that the government has instituted have resulted in far more paperwork than necessary----redundant paperwork where errors are often made. With declining reimbursements, volume is the most important thing---the more patients you can move in & out means more money. In the OR it is very obvious---the powers that be are ALWAYS up the anesthesia providers behinds to decrease turnover time. They want anesthesia to literally run to the PACU with the patient on a stretcher, throw the patient in a slot & run back to the OR to get the next patient on the table (and usually, when anesthesia gets back into the OR, the next patient is already on the table & hooked up to the monitors). I've had nurse managers stand in the doorway of the OR grilling me about why the patient was extubated, why the patient was still on the table, why I can't take the patient to PACU on a t-piece. It was infuriating. I don't care how much time I am "wasting"---I will not put a patient in danger or at risk just so they can turn the room over faster. There are patients that just don't wake up as fast as others---and in this day & age of bariatric surgery, obstructive sleep apnea & morbidly obese patients being regular patients in the OR, extra diligence is necessary to keep them safe. The same nurse manager tried her routine of standing in the doorway of the OR & grilling an MDA about why his patient was still on the table, and he turned around to her and yelled "THIS IS MY PATIENT. WHEN YOU GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL FOR 4 YEARS AND DO AN ANESTHESIA RESIDENCY FOR 3 YEARS, YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT WITH YOUR PATIENTS. YOU CAN BRING THE TO THE PACU WITH THEIR BELLY OPEN & PULL THE ANESTHESIA MACHINE WITH YOU IF YOU WANT. BUT, THIS IS MY PATIENT AND I WILL TAKE CARE OF MY PATIENT THE WAY I WANT. IF YOU HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT, YOU CAN CALL THE MEDICAL DIRECTOR. IN FACT, WHY DON'T WE CALL THE MEDICAL DIRECTOR TOGETHER, AND CONFERENCE IN THE CHIEF NURSING OFFICER SO THEY CAN BE AWARE OF WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS OPERATING ROOM. WE SHALL THEN FIND OUT WHAT THEIR STANCE IS ON ANESTHESIA CARE AND TURNING OVER THE OPERATING ROOM." After he did that, she hung her shoulders & walked out of the doorway, never to give anesthesia a hard time again. It would be a very difficult thing to try to explain to a jury that you brought your patient to the PACU when they weren't breathing because the nurse manager told you to do so, and it resulted in hypoxic or anoxic brain damage. But, the only thing the nurse managers care about is room turnover, time & getting more patients in & out of the rooms because that's what is being shoved down their throats by the administrative bean counters who have no knowledge or experience in health care or how an operating room & anesthesia works.

There will be an increased demand for CRNA's if the healthcare system continues to go the way it is now going---decreasing reimbursement rates, trying to move more patients through the OR & anesthesia departments trying to spend less to make more. When an anesthesia department can bill the same amount for a case that a CRNA does because they are "supervised" by an MDA, yet not pay an MDA salary & instead pay a CRNA 1/3 of what an MDA would cost, it is a very good financial decision.

loveanesthesia · Apr 18, 2017

I looked at the study when it was published in 2007. You can find it at: http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/technical_reports/2010/RAND_TR688.pdf

There are some assumptions that I find suspect. Such as (on page 11) : While, nationally, supply and demand would have to be equal, within a state, they need not.

Basically their method starts with the assumption that nationally there is no shortage, and they look at individual states to find the states with shortage.

10 years later their predictions have not been demonstrated in the market. The demand for CRNAs is accelerating.

As for your career, if you want to be an anesthesiologist, then that is what you should do. You will not be happy as a CRNA, and nursing school is risky for you. You may not be admitted to a CRNA program.

superking · Apr 18, 2017

Why I may not be admitted into CRNA school?Any particular reason?Even if I have great credentials?

loveanesthesia · Apr 19, 2017

If you are not scoring well enough to get into an anesthesia residency, then you may not score well enough to get into a CRNA program. CRNA programs are not easier to get into than residency, just different with a nursing background.

superking · Apr 19, 2017

I am in the 3rd semester of school.So far I have GPA of 3.94.In fact I think I am finding subjects easy as I already know almost everything due to my medical background.If you want to say that CRNA school will not accept me because of me being a doctor,That is another thing.

superking · Apr 19, 2017

For God sake Do not ever compare Anesthesiology residency with CRNA school.There is hell of difference in capabilities of applicants.