CRNA vs. Politics - page 2

CRNA vs. Politics Hello everyone, I have a question that perhaps will reveal some opinionated replies. I am only a phlebotomist, EMT and LPN, working on my ADN. However, I'm young and level... Read More

  1. by   BigDave
    Being involved is an important aspect of any profession. With the high level of "getting a slice of the pie" in anesthesia, it is probably much more important. I have not seen any other profession wanting to get involved in ICU "code browns" or anything. A prime example is what happened in Florida for office-based anesthesia that threatened to put many CRNAs out of a job, only by hard work did the law change get overturned. http://www.fana.org/
    There is a similar thing going on in NC. When I interviewed for school, I somehow talked it up--not knowing that two of the board members were recent presidents of the NCANA.

    As far as the swans go, there are those studies that show no improved outcomes...but they did not control for the illness of the patients getting the swans in the first place. There is an excellent talk on one of the Audio Digest anesthesia offerings.
    I met Tom at NTI a couple of years ago. He says that finding stroke volume via TE doppler and SvO2 via a triple lumen with an oxytip (not true SvO2, but close enough) gives much better info than the swan. He also states that the blood pressure cuff is a poor indicator of perfusion (mostly true). I think Tom is sponsored by the makers of that TLC. I think he is on this website:
    http://www.pacep.org/
  2. by   Stlcardsrock
    Quote from apaisRN
    I also learned at a critical care conference last fall (anyone know Tom Ahrens? he's amazing) that there are newer devices such as an esophageal probe that give you the same info with more safety and less chance of adverse event.
    I learned to be an ICU RN under Dr. Tom. He is a phenom. I now teach using his philosophyand methods of monitoring hemodynamics at my institution. When we implemented the Baxter CCO's 3-4 years ago, that was a quite the advancement, when we upgraded the software to include EDV/EF et al, it is much more useful now, not only in open heart recovery but in sepsis and even trauma.
  3. by   yoga crna
    You are not required to get involved with politics. Instead I make the following requests of you when you become a CRNA.

    1. You must never complain about what the AANA has or has not done for you and the profession. If you must complain, then you should get involved in the politics of the profession.

    2. Please donate 50% of your income to the AANA Foundation or AANA PAC. Fifty percent is the value of the political action of the AANA and state organizations to assure adequate reimbursement and independent practice rights. Without the action of a strong professional organization, we would be like generic nursing: working hard and making money for someone else and being expected to do it for the good of mankind.

    OK, I know I am being cynical, but we have all benefited from those CRNAs who are active in politics on all levels. If I were on an admissions committee for an anesthesia school, you would be on the bottom of my list. I would give higher consideration to those who are willing to contribute to future of the profession, not just take from it.

    Yoga CRNA
  4. by   MrRacer98
    Quote from yoga crna
    OK, I know I am being cynical, but we have all benefited from those CRNAs who are active in politics on all levels. If I were on an admissions committee for an anesthesia school, you would be on the bottom of my list. I would give higher consideration to those who are willing to contribute to future of the profession, not just take from it.
    I don't want to make enemies with ANYONE. But honestly!?!?! I'm just asking a question. I don't need the 3rd degree about admissions board, or get accused for taking from something that I know very little about. So, for being a nurse and a teacher in general, not to mention a professional; give people a CHANCE to learn before you go off and make false assumptions about someone. I tried to spell it out black and white that I do not know, therefore the reason of the post was to get professional (not condescending) feedback, and to ask what people's thoughts were on being a "quality contributor" for the profession.

    Jeremy
  5. by   yoga crna
    Jeremy,
    If you ask a question, you must be prepared for the answer. Nurse anesthetists mentor their young better than most professions and we are always looking for people we think would be good anesthetists.

    But, it is important that you don't harbor false illusions about what anesthesia is all about. It is difficult work, the education is very intense and just getting into the programs is quite competitive.

    I am not sure what you are looking for with your question, but I read it as asking whether you can just do anesthesia and not get involved with the profession. If that's what you asked, I will have to tell you that the answer is no, at least not in my book. Politics are everywhere and they are played out everyday in the operating room. You have to get along with all the other players without compromising patient care. The best anesthetists are the ones who know how to do that and know how important being a team player is to the total picture.

    If I misread your question, please advise and restate it. Otherwise, it is probably not a good idea to be so argumentative unless you are an expert on a subject.

    Yoga CRNA
  6. by   mwbeah
    Quote from versatile_kat
    Hey apais ... just wondering if you're being facetious about the Swan. I can''t imagine it becoming a dying trend since it's such an excellent device. But maybe you've heard something I haven't since I started school ... fill me in
    You may want to check out this article about swans.

    http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/conte...l/313/7060/763

    Mike
  7. by   MrRacer98
    Quote from yoga crna
    Jeremy,
    If you ask a question, you must be prepared for the answer. Nurse anesthetists mentor their young better than most professions and we are always looking for people we think would be good anesthetists.

    But, it is important that you don't harbor false illusions about what anesthesia is all about. It is difficult work, the education is very intense and just getting into the programs is quite competitive.

    I am not sure what you are looking for with your question, but I read it as asking whether you can just do anesthesia and not get involved with the profession. If that's what you asked, I will have to tell you that the answer is no, at least not in my book. Politics are everywhere and they are played out everyday in the operating room. You have to get along with all the other players without compromising patient care. The best anesthetists are the ones who know how to do that and know how important being a team player is to the total picture.

    If I misread your question, please advise and restate it. Otherwise, it is probably not a good idea to be so argumentative unless you are an expert on a subject.

    Yoga CRNA
    Here's the deal, I have no problem with getting an answer. No matter what the answer. However, all I'm saying is that if your going to answer something IMHO, you can use tact. As someone very green on the profession as a whole, your reply came off as negative and condescending. I know politics is everywhere and has to do with everything. Just because I'm new to the inter-workings of CRNA's does not mean I haven't been around.

    Half of anything is PR, and when people come off as negative, they defeat the purpose. Politics has to do with majority, majority has to do with PR etc etc...

    So in my defense, the only thing I was "arguing" about is that I don't think I deserved a smart alec remark, no matter what the answer in your opinion is.

    Jeremy
  8. by   mwbeah
    Quote from NurseNut
    Here's the deal, I have no problem with getting an answer. No matter what the answer. However, all I'm saying is that if your going to answer something IMHO, you can use tact. As someone very green on the profession as a whole, your reply came off as negative and condescending. I know politics is everywhere and has to do with everything. Just because I'm new to the inter-workings of CRNA's does not mean I haven't been around.

    Half of anything is PR, and when people come off as negative, they defeat the purpose. Politics has to do with majority, majority has to do with PR etc etc...

    So in my defense, the only thing I was "arguing" about is that I don't think I deserved a smart alec remark, no matter what the answer in your opinion is.

    Jeremy
    All I can say is that you are very young and have alot to learn about the profession. You are far removed from this profession as your profile displays so you making statements about CRNA politics, etc.. is like comparing apples with socks, it doesn't make sense.

    Mike
  9. by   athomas91
    Jeremy,
    try not to get so defensive. If you look at your origional post - it is very clearly stated that you do not want to be involved in any type of "politics" and you clearly asked if anyone thought that would be a problem.
    Yoga only answered your question with an honest answer of how he felt - That IS what you asked for, isn't it? noone here has in any way been negative or condescending - but they will if posts like the last few continue. just a heads up - in anesthesia - everyone knows everyone...now everyone knows jeremy from minnesota doesn't want to be involved in the AANA and politics in general, and that he has a bit of a temper. just be careful. that is my advice.
  10. by   BigDave
    I think Yoga's comments were fair and reasonable. The CRNAs, SRNAs, and wantabees on this forum have either worked real hard or are working real hard to enter this profession. This is a difficult multi-year commitment. Putting 8 years or more (14 since I learned of the profession in my BSN) into a process just to find out that the benefits that we hoped for (monetary, respect, job availability/mobility, clinical challenge...whatever our goals are) have been regulated away would be devestating. The issues are finally starting to get popular press (see the US News "turf Wars" article this month).

    The ASA has delivered CRNAs a blow with restrictions to billing a few years ago. Now several states (11?) have opted out and returned independent practice to CRNAs. This takes tremendous political work. The real crime is the opt out process is the right thing to do for healthcare, not just for CRNAs--but the ASA is not our friend. Yoga and those who stay involved are probably getting tired of "carrying" the profession. It really isn't fair to them, and your comments were predictably disturbing.
  11. by   Kiwi
    Jeremy,

    First, I admire your experience as a Phlebotomist, EMT, and LPN. I'm about to graduate with a BSN in May, and I'm sure that when you get to that point, all of your experience will help you transition to the next level. I think that you clearly stated that you're coming into this forum knowing nothing. I've talked to several CRNAs/SRNAs and have learned that many have strong personalities - and rightfully so (considering the rigor of the profession)! I have learned to be an observer; there is nothing that you can say or do that will please all. For example, sometimes during my nursing clinical, I wear a button that says, "At your side, on your side... Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetists". A couple months ago I met with the dean of a nurse anesthesia program and told her that I wear the button, and that if the patient inquires about it's significance, I inform them of the profession. The dean told me that she really liked that idea, but that I should not mention this small form of political activism during my interview at the school because there are anesthesiologists who may be offended! The dean also said, "I hate politics, but they are very present in the profession."

    I think it's safe to say that this BB is highly rooted in nursing activism. The CRNAs who post on this board have strong convictions. I read some threads and see no middle ground at all; some threads seem down right hostile. Like you, I don't have the answers yet, but I read the threads and learn from the experience of the CRNAs/SRNAs. There really are no hard or fast rules about the politics of anesthesia. I think that if you let your own values and convictions rule your life, then the pieces will fall as they may - that's my plan.
  12. by   MrRacer98
    The only thing I hate about online forums is that you can never send nonverbal messages or tone of voice. In my original post I never wanted to get the mood across that I didn't care about CRNA. I would be a member of AANA, and go the conventions and conferences say my opinion...I would be involved that way. Everything is hypothetical, because I'm not close to anything yet.

    I posted in defense last night on little sleep. I am genuinely sorry to Yoga. I had no intentions of personally attacking anyone. I now know the sensitivity of the subject and that there isn't much gray area. I can completely understand the severity of the topic, especially when people work so hard for their profession, then to think someone will change it on you. I would fight hand tooth and nail as well. To be honest, my post should have been better thought though. However I got a lot of good info about how people feel on the topic. Thanks.

    Jeremy the observer from now on
    Last edit by MrRacer98 on Feb 26, '05 : Reason: editing
  13. by   BigDave
    Good luck Jeremy!

    You probably DO have what it takes to be good in whatever profession you ultimately choose...determination, the seeking of knowledge, the ability to speak your mind, and the ability to see and accept differences in opinion.

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