Are CRNAs ashamed of being nurses?

Specialties CRNA

Published

I thought I would start a new thread to respond to the comment that some CRNAs act like they are ashamed of being nurses.

It might surprise some of you "younger" folk that there has been (for lack of a better phrase) bad blood between nurse anesthesia and mainstream nursing. At least, I hope it surprises some of you. Because I think both sides have been making efforts to mend those fences, and I think we have accomplished much in this regard.

So when I see young CRNAs/SRNAs bristle at the suggestion that they would be ashamed of their nursing roots, I smile. That is a good thing. It means we are shedding some of the baggage of the past, and good riddance to it.

On the other hand, it is part of our history, and we would best not forget about it, but understand it and learn from it. The book "Watchful Care" by Bankert tells the story better than I can. I know, some of you are sick of hearing me push this book. But until each and every one of you read it, expect to keep hearing me talk about it!

When nurse anesthetists decided to form a professional organization, they approached the ANA, and were rejected. Organized nursing said we were not "real nurses". Even though that took place decades ago, it continues to influence our behavior and attitudes today. Nursing and nurse anesthesia didn't really trust each other, so to feel like they were on the same side was just really out of the question. The prevailing view was that going into anesthesia was "leaving nursing". They looked down on us for doing it. And, yes, some nurse anesthetists embraced that by gloating that they had risen to a level above nursing.

There are remnants of this mutual distrust everywhere. Some of you have had to deal with nurse managers who were less than supportive of your desire to go to anesthesia school. Yes there are issues about training people who are just going to leave, jealousy, envy of the earning potential, etc. But I believe it is explained by these strong historical roots as well.

Somewhere along the line, both our professional organizations realized this mutual animosity was only hurting both of us. Nurse anesthesia is the most powerful of nursing specialties, in terms of legislation and lobbying power. We are the leaders among the specialties, the first to get individual billing rights, etc. Nursing has much to benefit by being our ally.

And despite all of nurse anesthesia's successes, we are met with increasing opposition and the threat of losing the ground we have gained. Mainstream nursing is 2.7 million strong. RNs constitute the largest group of all health care professionals. We can be much more effective, for all of our goals, if we work together.

I can really see an improvement since programs were required to grant master's degrees. More and more of our programs are now in schools of nursing. I personally believe that is contributing to our improved relationships.

So if someone with a decade or two's experience in ICU and/or anesthesia says they have known some CRNAs who are ashamed of being a nurse------yeah, that is probably the truth. Is that attitude common? Not as much now as it used to be. And should be getting increasingly more rare as we move toward the future. A future that is bright with promise for continued development of all nursing and its specialties.

loisane crna

Again, I don't have a problem with nurses furthering their career by entering a different arena; but it scares me that the inexperienced nurses are the ones going into CRNA.

I think the issue here would be basic requirements by CRNA schools. If they require X amt/years of experience that would help w/those who have the above attitude???? Don't they already?

Specializes in Nurse Anesthetist.

I believe all schools require only 1 year of critical care experience. Now adays, with a nursing shortage, a new grad can go directly into the ICU then to CRNA school. I think schools should require at least 1 year of critical care, but a min of 5 years of nursing. IMHO

Loisane,

You should write a book. Ive read so many of your posts and you always nail things right on the head, even my head at times.

Thank You for your input.....now, if I could box you up and put you in my bookbag during class/clinicals...... :)

Just a question:

What do you think about PAs or AAs, esp the ones that get a 2-year certificate, being able to practice in this field with less than the 5 year experience requirment that you desire?

I believe all schools require only 1 year of critical care experience. Now adays, with a nursing shortage, a new grad can go directly into the ICU then to CRNA school. I think schools should require at least 1 year of critical care, but a min of 5 years of nursing. IMHO
Just a question:

What do you think about PAs or AAs, esp the ones that get a 2-year certificate, being able to practice in this field with less than the 5 year experience requirment that you desire?

This subject has been beaten to death already. Do a search on the board with AA or PA as the subject and you'll have a wealth of debates to read over.

Just a question:

What do you think about PAs or AAs, esp the ones that get a 2-year certificate, being able to practice in this field with less than the 5 year experience requirment that you desire?

It's not a 2-yr certificate - it's a Master's Degree.

Riverside Community College in California has a 2 year certificate (PA). There are other colleges in California that also offer a certificate. King/Drew is a Bachelors; Western U is a Masters. Before I applied to nursing school, I checked out a few PA and AA degrees, and saw later that I could do a residency in anethesia (PA), or go straight into it with an AA. The AA degrees I was looking at, if I recall, were Master's. But I guess I really didn't pay attention to their degree requirements: 1. because I was qualified to apply (I have a B.S. in bio), and 2. It was out of state, and since I knew I didn't want to leave my husband, applying was out of the question.

Anyway, I wasn't really referring to the Master's educated PAs or AAs, I was referring to the one's that obtained a certificate. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

It's not a 2-yr certificate - it's a Master's Degree.

I'm not trying to be a smart alleck or anything, but I was asking Qwiigley's opinion of the the subject, b/c as s/he stated in the post that I quoted: S/he would like a 5-year requirement. I must stress that I don't intend to get into a debate. So if you're Qwiigley, I would like his or her opinion. If s/he has commented on this before, please direct me to his/her post on this matter.

Thanks

This subject has been beaten to death already. Do a search on the board with AA or PA as the subject and you'll have a wealth of debates to read over.

I am an SRNA. I am proud of the sRNa that I represent. I think it is important for CRNAs/SRNAs to remember their roots and where they got their wonderful background. I was an ICU/CCU/OHR nurse for 4 years prior to being accpeted to CRNA school. My experience allowed me to approach patients in a nursing way, with compassion, caring, and understanding. I do think, however, that there is a problem with nursing. I think nursing (in general) lacks power and a voice. I think that is too bad. There are 2 million nurses in the US and many thousands fewer physicians. Is there a reason why physicians rule the healthcare system? Only because we nurses do not voice our concerns loud enough!.

Specializes in Nurse Anesthetist.

Also because many (not all, but many) nurses are petty and not realistic when it comes to their complaints. We will not be regarded as porfessional as long as we have these issues. All nurses know these issues, I don't believe I have to list.

Loisane,

You should write a book. Ive read so many of your posts and you always nail things right on the head, even my head at times.

Thank You for your input.....now, if I could box you up and put you in my bookbag during class/clinicals...... :)

Thanks for the kind words. It is very gratifying to me that my insight may have been helpful to someone else.

I don't know about a book, but I am working on a couple of articles. Maybe someday---------;-)

loisane crna

I am glad to see that I may have churned the pot alittle regarding CRNAs being ashamed of their nursing background. What was really meant though is not being ashamed but rather so much better than their nursing coherts. I have seen this on numerous occasion (of course this is true with alot of advanced practice). The large majority are proud of the heritage and the steps they had to take to reach their goals. Maybe the problem that I see is from the CRNAs that acheived their Nursing degree with the sole intent of CRNA school (usually a degree in something other than nursing then attended a one year RN bridge)worked one year in nursing, then was picked up by some school that is concerned more with personality rather than ability. I truely believe that anyone pursueing an advance practice degree should have to pay their dues, not only for experience but also to develop a sense of pride for their foundation profession.

I appreciate all of the great information and input by everyone on these boards, you have made me consider many things that I may not have realized regarding my CRNA education.

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