SRNA's in MSN programs

smileyRn96 · Nov 23, 2007

I will not start NA school until August, but I did take all the core courses while doing my BSN. I can totally feel your pain especially nursing theory with all the qualitative research garbage they made us study and write about. I chose a MSN program becuase there is not any MS programs where I live.

I think that if an applicant can take these core courses before going NA school it would be a huge help to them.

-Smiley

piper_for_hire · Nov 23, 2007

I did get into both an MSN and MS programs. I chose the MSN program but it had nothing to do with the fact that it was an MSN program - just a better school. However, if I had to make that decision all over again I wouldn't even consider the MS program. This is mainly due to all of the DNP rumblings going around. While I expect to be grandfathered in if all of this DNP nonsense goes down, it will probably make sense for me to do some kind of MSN->DNP bridge program because grandfathering only really works if you stay in the same state and I like to move around. I'd rather get the MSN stuff out of the way instead of having to take it post-grad in order to get into a DNP program. Something to consider.

-S

RN1980 · Nov 23, 2007

well piper let me ask you this, do you think at this stage of your anesthesia schooling, would haveing a dnp vs msn in anesthesia make you a more competent provider? i've asked all the crna guys around here and they just sort laugh it off and some even think it's a waste of time, but most really don't care oneway "i've been passing gas fine without it". one crna told me it would'nt change the way he practices in anesthesia whether he got a dnp or not. i mean if it;s not going to advance your scope why have it?

ready4crna? · Nov 23, 2007

RN1980-

You have to understand that the push for the DNP has come out of the AACN (Association of colleges of nursing) NOT the AANA. So all those CRNA schools based out of SON, as opposed to SOM, must convert to the DNP if they want to maintain accredidation as a school of nursing. The controversy on the CRNA side is what to do with those programs based in SOM. Most of these programs do not have to have a nod from the AACN to keep the doors open. We (SRNA/CRNA's) have traditionally done things as a profession-All for one, one for all type governance. The DNP is not going to affect practice in a meaningful way for CRNA's, but history tells us if a large portion of the schools are forced to do it, all will follow suit for solidarity sake if nothing else.

PFH-

The DNP is a practice doctorate and as such I think there will be mechanism for all CRNA's (MS/MHS/MSN/MEd) to bridge easily to the DNP. Our programs as a whole have sufficient credit to only require approximately 6-12 months of full-time attendance for DNP completion. And we are talking about NP full time reference here (max 12 credits) as opposed to CRNA full time (13-18credits) so work is a definite possibility while in school.

Here is a plan of study from a "top tier" Nursing school DNP:

http://nursing.umaryland.edu/programs/dnp/plan.htm

You will notice that 15 credits are "specialty elective"- which has no course description.

I will finish with this: I personally think the DNP is a brainchild of a bunch of dean's of nursing schools to boost tuition and is going to be required for all APN's and will add nothing to any of the roles. However, I will get one if required by the AANA and hate every minute of it. If I wanted a doctorate I would have enrolled in a MSN/PhD program. :madface:

piper_for_hire · Nov 23, 2007

I'm only a student right now so what do I really know - but I don't think having a DNP will make me a better provider simply because the providers we have today seem to know what they are doing.

The dean at my school (and reportedly others in the area) think the DNP is a bad idea and are publicly saying that they won't do it. I think when all the dust settles - meaning the AANA, AACN and the folks that run the schools are on the same page - we will see the DNP becoming the requirement. Who knows how long all that will take. The dates being thrown around are meaningless if people can't get together and agree on this stuff. 2015? 2025? Meaningless until people cooperate.

However, I feel that this is just degree creep. While I think it would be nifty to have a clinical doctorate, I will always know that it was completely unnecessary.

-S

RN1980 · Nov 23, 2007

thanks, i 'm just really not informed enough. i just hope i can get into a program within the next 2yrs and just be grandfathered in, cause i can care less if i have a dnp or phd or abcdefg...just want crna...readyfor crna thanks for your info as well. good luck in school to both..

TJ8A · Nov 23, 2007

I will not start NA school until August, but I did take all the core courses while doing my BSN. I can totally feel your pain especially nursing theory with all the qualitative research garbage they made us study and write about. I chose a MSN program becuase there is not any MS programs where I live.
I think that if an applicant can take these core courses before going NA school it would be a huge help to them.
-Smiley

Smiley,

Convenience was a contributing fatcor for myself as well. Another factor was the quality of the program and the reputation of the excellent CRNA's it produces. However, if the same levels of convenience and reputation were in place for me to attend an MS program, I think I would have chosen the MS over the MSN.

I did get into both an MSN and MS programs. I chose the MSN program but it had nothing to do with the fact that it was an MSN program - just a better school. However, if I had to make that decision all over again I wouldn't even consider the MS program. This is mainly due to all of the DNP rumblings going around. While I expect to be grandfathered in if all of this DNP nonsense goes down, it will probably make sense for me to do some kind of MSN->DNP bridge program because grandfathering only really works if you stay in the same state and I like to move around. I'd rather get the MSN stuff out of the way instead of having to take it post-grad in order to get into a DNP program. Something to consider.
-S

PFH,

Thanks for mentioning the presumed move to a DNP requirement for CRNA's. The topic raises a few concerns with me. Getting an MSN now may not necessarily make it easier to complete a DNP down the road.

As you mentioned, I'm assuming that 'grandfathering' will occur. So, that will mean the DNP will not be required for me. I may choose to complete it anyway. However, what if 'term limits' are imposed on some of those MSN classes you are taking now? Are you going to take them over again? I don't think I will. Are you going to take the GRE again if they require it? I'm not. These are the types of things I had to do or redo to get into anesthesia school. I had to take quite a few classes over again from my BSN program because they were 'too old.' It was a pain. However, I did it with the sole purpose of getting into anesthesia school. If they pull this on me for a DNP, I'll tell them to take a long walk off a short bridge. Would you still jump through the hoops to get a degree you won't need to practice? I won't, esp. if it means taking the MSN core courses AGAIN.

allnurses Guide · Nov 23, 2007

Here is information page from AANA on the DNP. http://www.aana.com/uploadedFiles/Members/Membership/Resources/dtf_posstatemt0707.pdf

The AANA supports a DNP for all new nurse anesthetists by 2025.

We had the president of the AACN come talk to our class this summer. The bascis that the AACN president gave us was that we need to be more competitive with our professional counterparts ( MDs, PT, OT, Pharm Ds etc). I more or less totally disagreed with her. The other programs added more hours to their programs and implemented a practice doctorate to add more clinical/basic science courses. The DNP is just a re-hash of MSN core classes.

As far as the orginal question goes: I would choose the MS over the MSN program. There is too many extra classes in the MSN programs that don't enhance your nurse anestesia education.