CRNA or MDA - page 2

I'm sure this topic has come up numerous times before. I currently work in CTICU and I'm hoping to apply and get into a CRNA school. Lately, however, I have been considering changing things... Read More

  1. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from msn10
    Nurses and doctors developed a lot of things but I wouldn't use the same drugs/technologies they did a century ago. Who cares who invented it? That is also debatable. The first known anesthetic comes from the Inca Shamans. I am not about to go get a Shaman for my next surgery.



    Most of that technology comes from research which was funded by medical schools. It is no secret that medicine has the money and does most of the research regardless of the discipline. OB, FP, Radiology, etc. It is only recently that nursing has started to do much more research. It is very hard to get funded.



    CRNA's are the highest paid nurse without a significant amount more of training than their other NP counterparts, and much less the PhD scholars. For many CRNA's its about the money.

    Again, we could go round and round. I have to many MD's (2) and CRNA's (4) in my family and class to show either disrespect and I really can't stand the chips on all the shoulders.

    OP: There is a difference between CRNA and MD otherwise they would all just have the same title and education. CRNA is less time in school (even with the DNP) and somewhat less money. As I said, if you graduate with a CRNA that is all you can do unless you want to go back to staff nursing. An MD can still practice outside a hospital or surgery center as an MD. They can go into pain management, go on for fellowships and even be a FP. We have a retired anesthesiologist in a rural community that is the family practice doctor and he is wonderful. Good luck to you.
    Most medical research is funded by the government not by medical schools.

    Modern anesthesia started in the 1840s. It doesn't matter which ancient tribe did what with potential anesthesia before that time. Anesthesia didn't start becoming widely available until the mid 1800's.

    Most MDAs go into anesthesiology for the money and the lifestyle.

    There are a lot of reasons CRNAs go into anesthesia money is only one of them, and some of us are even dumb enough to take a pay cut for a few years because we like the job so well.

    You assume that there are chips on shoulders. The fact is there will always be politically tension between competing anesthesia groups especially when one group (ASA) actively tries to degrade and control CRNA practice.

    The simple truth is in day to day practice both types of anesthesia providers get along very well.
  2. by   msn10
    Most medical research is funded by the government not by medical schools.
    Who do you think writes the grants and does the research? Not to mention the donations to the med schools by past graduates.

    The last grant I wrote for was funded by the government, but we did all the work/research. The lab that we did the research in was funded by outside dollars, mostly graduates of the program.

    You assume that there are chips on shoulders.
    I don't have to assume, I see it/hear it everyday. However, it is not just a CRNA/Md thing. I find it interesting when I see a CRNA post that all the MD's do is walk around and drink coffee when they are supervising, yet the ICU nurses are saying the same thing about CRNA's, (all they have is one case that they sit in and do crosswords) the CNA's say the same thing about the RN's, and Lord knows everybody in the hospital thinks that the managers and administrators are the laziest! Everybody thinks that they are the hardest working person in the organization and everyone else is slacking. It is a food chain we are all part of and we are all looking for more control.

    The simple truth is in day to day practice both types of anesthesia providers get along very well.
    I agree with you. It is getting much better, but some people just can't get along. I wish it wasn't such a battle. Both disciplines have added a tremendous amount of time and energy to the safest type of medicine and I for one think that anesthesia is as safe and effective as it is today because of both CRNA's and MD's. It would not be where it is if both sides where not involved.
  3. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from msn10
    Who do you think writes the grants and does the research? Not to mention the donations to the med schools by past graduates.

    The last grant I wrote for was funded by the government, but we did all the work/research. The lab that we did the research in was funded by outside dollars, mostly graduates of the program.



    I don't have to assume, I see it/hear it everyday. However, it is not just a CRNA/Md thing. I find it interesting when I see a CRNA post that all the MD's do is walk around and drink coffee when they are supervising, yet the ICU nurses are saying the same thing about CRNA's, (all they have is one case that they sit in and do crosswords) the CNA's say the same thing about the RN's, and Lord knows everybody in the hospital thinks that the managers and administrators are the laziest! Everybody thinks that they are the hardest working person in the organization and everyone else is slacking. It is a food chain we are all part of and we are all looking for more control.



    I agree with you. It is getting much better, but some people just can't get along. I wish it wasn't such a battle. Both disciplines have added a tremendous amount of time and energy to the safest type of medicine and I for one think that anesthesia is as safe and effective as it is today because of both CRNA's and MD's. It would not be where it is if both sides where not involved.

    Most of research is conducted by people with their PhDs, and statistically most research is government funded.

    This is a political battle between two organizations/provider types. Physicians are losing ground steadily as the patriarch of healthcare, and as a political entity they are fighting it every step of the way. Nurse anesthetists are fighting to keep the independence they have always had for 120+yrs.
  4. by   msn10
    Most of research is conducted by people with their PhDs
    PhD's with their MD's. Can't do most of the medical research without being a physician.
  5. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from msn10
    PhD's with their MD's. Can't do most of the medical research without being a physician.
    Unless you have a verified statistic that shows that most medical research is done by MDs then will just have to agree to disagree.
  6. by   aroze
    Thank you all for all your suggestions and opinions, I really appreciate it. As of today I'm leaning towards the CRNA option just because of the amount of years it will save me. I just hope that I'm making the right choice and I dont end up regretting my decision when I'm older. Do you guys feel like there will still be a market for CRNA's in the near and distint future? And if so do you think it will still be as lucrative as it is today?
  7. by   msn10
    Unless you have a verified statistic that shows that most medical research is done by MDs then will just have to agree to disagree.
    I guess we will disagree.

    However, I am talking specifically about anesthesia. Look at any journal (Anesthesiology) and look at the research author's credentials. The last volume I saw had quite a few MD/PhD authors. Furthermore, the PhDs are often contributing authors who's main job is to set up the study and to assure things like interrater reliability.

    According to the NIH (since you referred to government funded research) the PI of the grant:

    "Eligible candidates must have an M.D. degree or its equivalent, must have completed postgraduate clinical training and have secured a faculty appointment in an appropriate research-intensive environment, must identify a mentor with extensive research experience, and must be willing to spend a minimum of 75 percent of full-time professional effort conducting research and research career."

    http://www.nigms.nih.gov/Research/Fe...ms/Anesthesia/

    The MD/PhD program at our medical college is 4 years residency and 2 years PhD work. This is where a lot of the EBR that is realized and practiced today in anesthesia is created. Same with the University of Iowa, Harvard, Cleveland Clinic, and others.

    I am sure that CRNA's will contribute even more to the research now that they require a DNP, although this is still not PhD work, it does significantly add to the research pool.

    That is why I think medicine is so important to anesthesia. The discipline has brought in a great deal of money and the schools are set up to do research.

    As of just 10 years ago, CRNA schools had a very limited amount of research:

    According an article by AANA (2002)
    "Results revealed a small percentage of CRNAs are involved in the research process at some level. The majority of CRNAs conducting research did not receive preparation in the research process from their educational curriculum. There was a significant relationship between working in a teaching hospital and whether CRNAs conducted research. Many barriers were identified."

    Now that should change and increase due to the DNP requirement.
    Last edit by msn10 on Oct 18, '11

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