Why are preceptors not provided in MSN programs?

Nursing Students NP Students

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I don't mean to come off complaining. I'm genuinely prepared to search for my own clinical sites as I have already applied to three schools. But I just wondered, in my RN program, I never had to worry about it. Why is it the norm for RN education to have clinical sites provided, but not MSN?

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
3. As BostonFNP said I believe the licensing exam could use some beefing up. Obviously I've never taken it so I do not speak from experience, but from what I've heard and seen in review books it isn't that in depth. I plan to take the AANP exam upon graduation because it's more clinical based, but still..[/quote']

As an aside, the exam will be more challenging than your review books, but it still shouldn't be hard for a well-prepared NP-candidate. Only the bottom 10th percentile fails.

As for the AANP vs ANCC exam, in my opinion the AANP exam is much easier even though it is more clinical than the ANCC exam. The ANCC exam is a bit more true-to-practice, again in my opinion. I always recommend to my students

to take both exams.

Specializes in OB & ICU.

Mentoring students is an important part of the ANCC standard. I understand you are frustrated and feel the need to be compensated for precepting students, but significant credit is offered toward the 5 year renewal through the ANCC for precepting students. I also understand that being a preceptor is time consuming. Perhaps the schools should start charging students extra money in order to pay preceptors. I know this would be a better option than what I witnessed from one NP preceptor, thankfully not my own. This NP really abused students, was making $$$ off of students (increasing the patient load and thus increasing per patient pay). This sort of thing is happening frequently, so yes, preceptors should be paid a flat fee by the school for being a preceptor. This would help ensure a greater number of preceptors and keep the abusive ones at bay. No offense, I know many of you make work for places that do not compensate you for the additional patient load that an NP student can help with.

I do not believe that schools without a brick and mortar campus should offer NP programs. FuturreeastcostNP, I see in the threads where you are planning to attend an online program. As a matter of fact, one of these is the program I graduated from! After you earn your degree, and others come here bashing it, we will see how you react. And the ANCC or AANP exam will test to make sure you are competent. That is the entry to practice, same as the NCLEX.

Futhermore, coming to this site to make fun of someone else for their education is lateral violence. I went to a state school that offered my specialty online and I do not like to have to argue my point. I have a MSN and passed the ANCC exam. This has gone farther than a stimulating discussion. And to think that some of you have been labeled “ guides”. I know that many school advertise on this site and whoever is behind this site is making money. Do not make fun of someone else because they took a step forward and obtained higher education. And do not place your self -worth as a nurse or person on where you received your degree.

Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
And to think that some of you have been labeled “ guides”. I know that many school advertise on this site and whoever is behind this site is making money. Do not make fun of someone else because they took a step forward and obtained higher education. And do not place your self -worth as a nurse or person on where you received your degree.

Being a "guide" on this site is a voluntary role though the site admins have a say on who gets approved to become "guides". The site encourages free exchange of ideas in a non-threatening, respectful, and professional manner. Because posters are anonymous, there is a tendency by some to forget self restraint and editing. If you happen to feel that a statement violated the site's Terms of Service, you should report the post.

The site has advertising just like any other social network site in order to keep serving the membership. The site employs non-nurses who are experts on programming and website development. Because it is a nursing site, ads target the audience and for-profit schools have the money to pay for ads, plain and simple. That is not a blanket endorsement of those schools.

Mentoring students is an important part of the ANCC standard. I understand you are frustrated and feel the need to be compensated for precepting students, but significant credit is offered toward the 5 year renewal through the ANCC for precepting students.

I am a CNS and don't know if the standards and requirements are different for NPs, but, for my recertification, using supervision of grad students for recertification replaces 75 hours of continuing ed, which works out to 2 days/year for the five years of certification. I don't really see that as "significant." Frankly, it would be a whole lot easier to just do an extra 15 hrs of continuing ed each year.

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
I understand you are frustrated and feel the need to be compensated for precepting students, but significant credit is offered toward the 5 year renewal through the ANCC for precepting students.

Is this in response to my post? I just re-read it and I don't think I came across as being frustrated or that I feel I "need" to be compensated, so lets clear that up from the start if there was confusion. I precept students because it helps my practice and because I feel that it is an important part of NP education, not for any financial gain.

I also understand that being a preceptor is time consuming.

It sure is; have you precepted many? See the next quote.

No offense, I know many of you make work for places that do not compensate you for the additional patient load that an NP student can help with.

See above. Precepting is time consuming. I see an average of 2 patients less per session when I have a student. I feel that if I was increasing my patient load because I had a student I would be doing the student a disservice. Does it hurt my bottom line? A little, but it's not really a concern.

Futhermore, coming to this site to make fun of someone else for their education is lateral violence. Do not make fun of someone else because they took a step forward and obtained higher education.

Where exactly were you being "made fun" of?

Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.

I haven't seen anything in this thread that I would consider "lateral violence."

Mentoring students is an important part of the ANCC standard. I understand you are frustrated and feel the need to be compensated for precepting students, but significant credit is offered toward the 5 year renewal through the ANCC for precepting students. I also understand that being a preceptor is time consuming. Perhaps the schools should start charging students extra money in order to pay preceptors. I know this would be a better option than what I witnessed from one NP preceptor, thankfully not my own. This NP really abused students, was making $$$ off of students (increasing the patient load and thus increasing per patient pay). This sort of thing is happening frequently, so yes, preceptors should be paid a flat fee by the school for being a preceptor. This would help ensure a greater number of preceptors and keep the abusive ones at bay. No offense, I know many of you make work for places that do not compensate you for the additional patient load that an NP student can help with.

I do not believe that schools without a brick and mortar campus should offer NP programs. FuturreeastcostNP, I see in the threads where you are planning to attend an online program. As a matter of fact, one of these is the program I graduated from! After you earn your degree, and others come here bashing it, we will see how you react. And the ANCC or AANP exam will test to make sure you are competent. That is the entry to practice, same as the NCLEX.

Futhermore, coming to this site to make fun of someone else for their education is lateral violence. I went to a state school that offered my specialty online and I do not like to have to argue my point. I have a MSN and passed the ANCC exam. This has gone farther than a stimulating discussion. And to think that some of you have been labeled “ guides”. I know that many school advertise on this site and whoever is behind this site is making money. Do not make fun of someone else because they took a step forward and obtained higher education. And do not place your self -worth as a nurse or person on where you received your degree.

I never said anything bad against online programs - reread my post. I said FOR PROFIT online programs are bad. I have never looked into a for profit, and the schools I am currently considering going to now are all either B&M or online that provide preceptors from reputable programs. I do have threads looking into other schools, but I was doing research, nothing more.

Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.
CNM programs are accredited and regulated by ACME an arm of ACNM. Students in all the above programs do NOT beg for preceptors.

Well...I know for a fact that part isn't accurate. I almost went into a CNM program that requires me to find my own preceptors. This is a real school that has been around...not some crap school. So CNM programs...very well may require the student to find their own preceptors.

Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
Well...I know for a fact that part isn't accurate. I almost went into a CNM program that requires me to find my own preceptors. This is a real school that has been around...not some crap school. So CNM programs...very well may require the student to find their own preceptors.

I stand corrected. There are online CNM programs. There are posts on the CNM forum asking for preceptors, though not to the same extent you see in all the 3 NP-related forums. My limited experience with CNM programs is based on some familiarity with 3 programs (Wayne State University in Detroit, University of Michigan, and UCSF) all of which are not online programs.

Specializes in Pediatrics, High-Risk L&D, Antepartum, L.

One of the issues I'm having...NPs telling me they can't take an NP student because they are required to take med students. Seriously? I think it's a shame NPs have to educate med students over NP students.

Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
One of the issues I'm having...NPs telling me they can't take an NP student because they are required to take med students. Seriously? I think it's a shame NPs have to educate med students over NP students.

An NP's teaching role can be dictated by the practice they belong to. As employees of a university medical center, our NP group gets an ACNP student and/or a Medical Student rotating with us in the ICU. This is not our choice, as both Schools of Nursing and Medicine coordinate student rotation schedules at the medical center. Chances are you are contacting NP's who belong to a teaching service that is part of a medical school. You can't fault NP's for following their practice's teaching mission albeit leaving out non-affiliated NP students high and dry. Too bad NP programs can't do the extra legwork medical schools do to secure clinical sites -- I'm sure a big part of that is because medical schools have more funding and/or donor support.

Specializes in OB & ICU.

I know several experienced LPNs who advanced through Excelsior to become RNs, and were very happy with the program. My hospital made a decision to remove LPNs from specialty areas so these nurses either had to go back to school or leave the specialty they had been in for years. I also know RNs who went through Walden, Chamberlain (brick and mortar campus) and South University for RN-BSN. And I think a nurse having the freedom to advance their education online is a wonderful thing. This is the point I was making toward snubbing online degrees and making someone feel inferior.

A good friend of mine is enrolled in Chamberlain now for RN-BSN, and will graduate soon. She has just about worked herself to death in this program, and took the course of study at a slower rate than recommended. I am intrigued and pleasantly surprised by the content for Chamberlain RN-BSN, especially the EBP focused curriculum. I worked with her and personally witnessed her growth as a nurse. Chamberlain did buy out old and very rigorous school called Deaconess, and more than likely inherited experienced faculty and tradition.

I am with everyone here on making it the school’s responsibility to provide preceptors, or at the very least being upfront with students about travel requirements. If I had not known my preceptors, I could not have finished school without relocating. I will be forever indebting to by preceptors for their kindness, and they both know it. However, no school could promise me a preceptor, given my remote location and specialty. If you are a student reading this post and your school promises a preceptor, consider your location. Some schools consider 3 hours to be a “local” area for students to travel.

We need to advocate for independent practice and prescribing. This should be a goal shared by all. We need to work to stream line our profession and take pride in others accomplishments. I do not see the forecast of over saturation of NPs, especially with the DNP mandate and aging population. Schools are changing their MSN programs to DNP, whether the mandate is actually implemented or not.

Also, I greatly admire those who better our profession by precepting students. I think compensation should be made for preceptors, because this will insure very good preceptors who are interested in a student’s progress. But this will have to be mandated by the CCNE or it will never happen across the board.

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