Becoming an NP with little to no nursing experience??

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Hello to all!!! I have worked as a parmamedic for 20 years, have a B.A. in Economics, and I wanted to advance my career in healthcare. I was originally looking to pursue the PA route, but for certain practical reasons (including my union not helping to pay for it) I have been looking at other options, nursing/NP.

I was very excited to learn of a school near me that has a combined BSN/NP program for people with non-nursing bachelor degrees. I was about to start looking deeper into this program when a good friend of mine who is a member of an interview committee at a nearby hospital told me that I shouldn't do the program because I would have trouble getting a job.

The reason stated was because I wouldn't have been seen as having "paid my dues" as a nurse first.

Is this true?

I could understand why someone might feel that way about someone who went through this type of program never having worked in healthcare before. However, I like to think that to a certain degree I've paid my dues (I know it isn't nursing, but from a time in healthcare perspective).

My friend did say that I might be considered an exception to that rule. The program is at a VERY well known school and I was told by my friend even then it wouldn't matter. I was wondering what people here thought regarding this topic.

Thank you for any guidance you can provide.

Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

Hi Uberman - my point was that from a business sense, a practice that hired an entry level NP (with no RN experience), would have to train you to be an RN first prior to even starting the NP training. This prolongs the orientation.

I'm just curious what part of the country do you live in? What is the demand for the entry level NP (no RN experience)? Do you have job offers in writing? I live in central IL and the job market for APN's is tight.

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Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.
unless you do something purposely, i.e, pulling out a gun and shooting a patient, the insurance company 99% of the time will pay, look at any malpractice policy there are stipulations regarding this type of thing. this is why you have malpractice?

off topic:

i've seen nurses (insert title) involved in litigation. nurses who did not carry individual . they were covered under the hospital . remember that all liability carriers have limits of liability. the policy covered all parties (nurses) involved in the suit. the total cost of the lawsuit surpassed the limits of coverage and the nurses were required to pay out-of-pocket, the difference.

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Hi Uberman - my point was that from a business sense, a practice that hired an entry level NP (with no RN experience), would have to train you to be an RN first prior to even starting the NP training. This prolongs the orientation.

Hello Trauma -

I am disputing the fact that you need previous work experience in order to work as a Nurse Practitioner. Do Registered Nurses need experience to get a job as a registered nurse?

I am not disputing the fact that individuals with more experience will have a greater chance at being selected over a canidate with less experience.

The fact is that there are more and more APRN programs that do not require previous experience for entry, despite the fact that many people "dont like it". And it is also a fact that people that graduate from these jobs are able to actually get a job working as an APRN rather than first working as a registered nurse for 2 years.

I'm just curious what part of the country do you live in? What is the demand for the entry level NP (no RN experience)? Do you have job offers in writing? I live in central IL and the job market for APN's is tight.

I am from the east coast...There is demand for NP's and depending on the individual/institution doing the hiring new grads will be hired. Like I said, if an employer feels as though they can pay a new grad less money rather than pay someone more money that has greater expereince they may. I have plenty of friends who have gotten jobs as APRN's with NO previous experience and they are very happy. One of them works in primary care, again no RN experience and they are doing great. I dont see how RN experience would exactly help them anyway..she is more like a mini physician than anything, not like she is sitting there giving people catheters and IV's. And yes, I work in a multidisciplinary practice, primarily specializing in musculoskeletal/neuromuscular pain and I dont see how I need previous RN experience in orthopedic nursing to do what I do, I learned great information in school and I merely apply it, hence the term "practice". I did my clinicals and passed my boards....I have my license, I can do my job and do it well.

I have heard the job market is tight in IL/Chicago....some markets are very tight, Boston is a good example, its difficult to even land a decent RN job there....

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off topic:

i've seen nurses (insert title) involved in litigation. nurses who did not carry individual malpractice insurance. they were covered under the hospital liability insurance. remember that all liability carriers have limits of liability. the policy covered all parties (nurses) involved in the suit. the total cost of the lawsuit surpassed the limits of coverage and the nurses were required to pay out-of-pocket, the difference.

hmm, what i am referring to is the likelyhood of a single aprn being the target of a lawsuit and the phallacies and assumptions associated with that, not a lawsuit involving 20 people on a hospital ward etc......

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Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

Advanced practice nursing - still has the "nursing" part in it. Being an RN isn't about tasks like putting in catheters and/or IVs, its about having basic assessment skils to know when someone is sick. This is the most important tenet to take from being an RN. You have to know when you are out of your league or when you need to be a strong advocate for your patient. I just don't think that entry-level to practice APNs have the assessment skills. Its not something taught in school - it comes from years of experience.

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Advanced practice nursing - still has the "nursing" part in it. Being an RN isn't about tasks like putting in catheters and/or IVs, its about having basic assessment skils to know when someone is sick. This is the most important tenet to take from being an RN. You have to know when you are out of your league or when you need to be a strong advocate for your patient. I just don't think that entry-level to practice APNs have the assessment skills. Its not something taught in school - it comes from years of experience.

Really? From what I understand RN's learn basic assessment skills during their undergraduate education. Things like being able to take a persons pulse, blood pressure, temperature and respirations...as well as cardiac and pulmonary ausculation...the rudimentary stuff, APRNS learn advanced physical examination procedures...neurological exams...these are psychomotor skills that as you practice, you will become better at, just like anything else in life. How many times do you need to take a blood pressure before you become proficient at it? What about a temperature reading? Do you think these skills really require decades to hone? As for the other skills, cardiac/pulmonary auscultation, palpation etc...maybe slightly longer but if you are determined you can learn them quickly...The key thing is being able to recognize something abnormal with a physical examination so that you can refer out or order further(more accurate) diagnostic testing. What about my setting, do you think I sit there listening to peoples hearts and lungs and palpating peoples spleens. diagnosing an S4 gallop w/ mitral valve prolapse like I am some kind of cardiologist? No.... Again it depends on the setting that you work in. Moreover, how much information do you usually get from a physical exam, you get much more from the history...do you think it takes someone 10 years as an RN to learn how to take a history? Come on I think you are selling alot of people short....LMOPQRST - FAOMASH - etc...As far as advocacy goes, I am not sure what I sure i follow that....If someone comes into my office and has pain I try to get them better, if i cant help them or If I feel someone else can help them better I refer out...The patient comes to me for help, i attempt to help them what do you mean "advocate" what else do you want me to do?

I understand that you dont like the idea, why are so many schools offering the option if new graduates are as incompetant as you assert?

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RN degrees equip people to practise as BEGINNER RN's. The only way to become experienced is to work as an RN. Read all the "First Year in Nursing" posts if you don't believe that. APRN degree equip people to work as BEGINNER APRNs. Sure, it can be done with no RN experience, however it is the harder way to do it.

The OP asked for opinions, and got them from the people "in the trenches". If you don't like them, by all means do your thing, and good luck. It's kind of pointless to think this thread is going to change your mind, or anyone else's.

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I've seen nurses (insert title) involved in litigation. Nurses who did not carry individual malpractice insurance. They were covered under the hospital liability insurance. Remember that all liability carriers have limits of liability. The policy covered all parties (nurses) involved in the suit. The total cost of the lawsuit surpassed the limits of coverage and the nurses were required to pay out-of-pocket, the difference.

Thank you Siri. This is my point exactly, especially since NP's do have more liability.

:typing

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Thank you Siri. This is my point exactly, especially since NP's do have more liability.

:typing

Thank you Siri. This is my point exactly, especially since NP's do have more liability.

:typing

???? I dont think Siri is talking about solo practicing nurse practitioners but if you deduce that she is from her statement, hmm ok?

Just curious Lizz, I was wondering if you would care to comment on some of the points that I made regarding the assertions you raised during your last post...? I broke some things down and I was wondering if you had any further thoughts because I found some of the points exaggerated(from a factual standpoint), page 7.

Thanks for the clarifcation on that -

Uber -> Man

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Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.
I dont think Siri is talking about solo practicing nurse practitioners

Well, no, not solo NPs, but yet again, solo NPs would not be ones just out of an NP program nor would they be NPs with zero RN experience and/or just out of an NP program. At least, I would hope not. That is a very scary thought.

But, as for litigation, some NPs do not carry individual liability (which is VERY dangerous) and if working in a group with other NPs, will be covered by the entities liability carrier. They, if named in a suit, would share the limits of liability coverage as outline above.

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Well, no, not solo NPs, but yet again, solo NPs would not be ones just out of an NP program nor would they be NPs with zero RN experience and/or just out of an NP program. At least, I would hope not. That is a very scary thought.

Ok, what about NP's working in primary care or working in speciality practice, i.e orthopedics or some other discipline. Can you provide me with any actual statistics regarding the frequency or APRN's being sued? Its easy to say anectdotally "I know of 5 people who have gotten sued" etc, I have seen alot of speculation to the point of ridiculousness thus far...people claiming things that have no basis in fact at all and blowing things out of proportion rather than looking at the cold, hard facts. Actually I am really interested to see statistics on:

1) Number of malpractice suits against APRN's relative to other health disciplines, PA, RN, etc....

2) Number of malpractice suits settled against these groups -

3) Number of malpractice suits that have went to trial regarding these groups

4) Number of jury awards in plaintiff favor in these groups -

I mean do APRN's get sued MORE than these other groups? I am asking a research question here and I need some data to come up with the answers. I already know via FACTS that

A) Malpractice cases are almost always settled out of court

B) The settlement results in an award for the plaintiff toward the monetary benefit of the policy

C) In settling the defendant admits NO WRONGDOING

D) Despite some exaggerated claims people do not automatically get equity in your house because they decide to sue you, that requires a trial award in favor of the plaintiff, but the great chances are it will never go to trial.

But, as for litigation, some NPs do not carry individual liability (which is VERY dangerous) and if working in a group with other NPs, will be covered by the entities liability carrier. They, if named in a suit, would share the limits of liability coverage as outline above.

I agree, I think you would have to be a fool not to carry individual liability coverage. BUt I want to see the cold hard facts about these health professionals getting sued and how many of them actually become personally liable for damages suffered to the plaintiff...the way some people are talking you think it happens to everyone everday....its just gross exaggeration spitting in the face of factual evidence to the contrary.

Do you think that Nurse Practitioners that go straight from BSN to APRN without working as RNs first are incompetant?

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Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.
Do you think that Nurse Practitioners that go straight from BSN to APRN without working as RNs first are incompetant?

No, I do not think they are incompetant and no one here has intimated that. Just very very inexperienced, have zero situations to reflect upon other than those very few patients with whom they have had contact as students in clinicals, lack the astute diagnostic abilities as they relate to the disease process for they've not had the experience to work with and/or troubleshoot many scenarios/situations, and are woefully unprepared for the real world.

On another note, if you are truly interested in liability stats as they relate to the RN and/or NP, I suggest you start another thread about this topic for we have ventured off topic discussing liability issues.

Now, back to the topic at hand: "Becoming an NP with little to no nursing experience??"

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