Becoming an NP with little to no nursing experience?? - page 24

Hello to all!!! I have worked as a parmamedic for 20 years, have a B.A. in Economics, and I wanted to advance my career in healthcare. I was originally looking to pursue the PA route, but for... Read More

  1. by   core0
    Quote from PediASL
    Of course, that almost goes without saying. I did find the PDF and this is not a study, rather, a discussion. So take it for what it is worth.....

    www.nursingcenter.com/library/JournalArticle.asp?Article_ID=623772
    Problem is that this talks about entry into nursing not NP. There is a lot of information about various nursing education models. There are no studies that I am aware of that talk about NP education models. While you can argue whether or not NP education builds off nursing experience and education, there is significant difference in the material in nursing programs as compared to NP programs.

    David Carpenter, PA-C
  2. by   glitter28
    Quote from Mission
    I'm a student at Columbia and I know in the past the Acute care program had 100% job placement rate after graduation and those people were expected to go straight from the BSN through the MSN program full-time. I'm in the FNP program and that director expects us to work as nurses while we do the masters phase. I'm doing the program part-time and working full-time but it is possible to do it full-time and work full-time. I worked in health care for 7 years before I started this program and was strongly encouraged by the doctors and nurses I worked with to go here. I've already been offered an NP job even though I probably won't graduate till 2010. If you have any questions about the program feel free to PM me.
    hi
    right now I am going into my junior year in at a university and have just decided to do nursing. I haven't taken any of the pre-reqs yet...but what I was thinking about doing was finishing up my bachelors in health admin. and then going into a master entry program and doing my masters in nursing which takes about 3.5-4 years and becoming a NP. Does this route sound good or do you have a better option?
    Thanks.
  3. by   FNP 2 Be
    I'm probably joining this conversation pretty late in the discussion and I have not read every post, so I apologize if I am repeating myself. There are several people I know who plan on going directly into the FNP role without any nursing experience. Most others I know had about 1 year or so of bedside nursing experience before moving into the advanced practice route. There is a study titled "Does RN Experience Relate to NP Clinical Skills?" In case you want to look it up here is the information: Rich, E.R. (2005). Does RN experience relate to NP clinical skills?. The Nurse Practitioner. 30(12), 53-56. I have not gotten a chance to thoroughly read the article in its entirety, however, I did scan it and found the following quote directly from the article in the discussion section:

    "Based on the data collected in this study, duration of practice experience as an RN was not correlated with level of competency in NP practice skills, as determined by NP self report. An unexpected finding was that there was a significant negative correlation between years of experience as a RN and NP clinical practice skills as assessed by the NPs’ collaborating physicians. Longer experience as a RN was associated with lower rankings of NP skills competency by the physicians." (Rich, 2005, p. 56).

    Now, keep in mind that this is only one study. But, if you think about it - the NP role is different than the RN role. As NPs you diagnose and prescribe/furnish medication. This is a discussion that is always being brought up in the nursing community and one person once said to me: "MDs don't have to be nurses first before they practice right?" I am in no way saying comparing myself to a physician or that the education is equivalent or whatever. Keep in mind I'm just bringing up topics to discuss and I mean no disrespect to anyone and I am only offering opinions and they are just that - opinions.

    Any thoughts?
  4. by   traumaRUs
    My thought is that yes, the NP (or other APN) does diagnose and treat dz processes. However, assessment is the most important part of this process and that is what takes awhile to develop. I'm not saying that you can't go directly to FNP. However, I do feel that you might have a tendency to over-state your qualifications and over-rate your skills (as per the self-report in this study).

    Good article and discussion - thank you.

    I wanted to add that my experience as a new APN last year, I got interviews based on my RN experience (10 years level one ER and 1 year ICU, 1 year med-surg). In my area, mid-level provider positions are scarce and its all about who you know and who knows you. It is nice to have the direct-entry FNP for areas where there are more positions. However, in many areas of the country, positions are scarce and that is when most MDs will opt for an experienced RN, new APN versus a new grad APN with no RN experience.
    Last edit by traumaRUs on Jul 18, '07
  5. by   subee
    [QUOTE=FNP 2 Be;2303998]I'm probably joining this conversation pretty late in the discussion and I have not read every post, so I apologize if I am repeating myself. There are several people I know who plan on going directly into the FNP role without any nursing experience. Most others I know had about 1 year or so of bedside nursing experience before moving into the advanced practice route. There is a study titled "Does RN Experience Relate to NP Clinical Skills?" In case you want to look it up here is the information: Rich, E.R. (2005). Does RN experience relate to NP clinical skills?. The Nurse Practitioner. 30(12), 53-56. I have not gotten a chance to thoroughly read the article in its entirety, however, I did scan it and found the following quote directly from the article in the discussion section:

    "Based on the data collected in this study, duration of practice experience as an RN was not correlated with level of competency in NP practice skills, as determined by NP self report. An unexpected finding was that there was a significant negative correlation between years of experience as a RN and NP clinical practice skills as assessed by the NPs' collaborating physicians. Longer experience as a RN was associated with lower rankings of NP skills competency by the physicians." (Rich, 2005, p. 56).

    Now, keep in mind that this is only one study. But, if you think about it - the NP role is different than the RN role. As NPs you diagnose and prescribe/furnish medication. This is a discussion that is always being brought up in the nursing community and one person once said to me: "MDs don't have to be nurses first before they practice right?" I am in no way saying comparing myself to a physician or that the education is equivalent or whatever. Keep in mind I'm just bringing up topics to discuss and I mean no disrespect to anyone and I am only offering opinions and they are just that - opinions.

    Any thoughts?[/QUOTE


    Just a quick comment on the above study. I believe that the first finding that you reported on is invalid since competency is self-reported. No one knows what they don't know. No - MD's don't have to be nurses (what does that have to do with the price of milk?) first but they do have the luxury of a long residency which gives them the experiences you only get from working. The 2nd finding you report on is really interesting and certainly deserves being studies in more depth. Could it be that the experiened nurses are more difficult to be "handled" by the MD - more questioning, more assertive, more non-compliant with MD's dream of the ideal FNP? I don't know - neither does anyone else.
  6. by   jjjoy
    Also, the direct entry NPs are likely to be of a different personality than those who worked as RNs for many years. Many direct entry NPs wouldn't have become RNs if the NP option wasn't quickly available.

    Right now, direct entry programs are very competitive and will be selecting only the top candidates who are most likely to succeed. Very motivated students will learn what they need to know regardless of their training program. And they will be confident of their abilities.

    Even regardless of the motivation factor and degree of formal training, by the end of the first working year, graduates will either have mastered what they need for their job or will have moved on to something else.
  7. by   nightingalenp
    Has your friend ever heard of the nursing shortage? You won't have any problems. I am an NP and love it. The only problem you might encounter is the school work. The classes for your BSN and MSN will be more of a challenge for you since you don't have the nursing background but, if you study alot, you can do it. Being a paramedic will definately help with the critical care portion of school.
    Good luck!!
  8. by   amzyRN
    Quote from augigi
    There is no reason to think you definitely won't be able to get an NP job - you would have to check out the market in your area. It is more that you may not feel (or be) ready for advanced nursing if you don't even have basic nursing down. You also might! It is great that you are considering this before jumping in. I would definitely do a masters if you can rather than a BSN though - you can always work for a year in nursing and then upgrade to an NP position, and you will already have the masters behind to support you.
    Hi augigi,
    I noticed that you said that if one has a choice of doing an masters program versus a BSN, they should do the masters. Well, I recently got accepted to an ABSN program here in San Francisco and because I missed application deadlines did not apply to any direct entry masters programs. I figured I would get the BSN-RN first, get a year or so experience and then apply to a MS program. Now I am having some second thoughts, since I really want the NP. That is my goal and I am worried that my chances of getting accepted to a masters may be decreased if I first get the BSN-RN, though I have been told that it is easier to get into a MS program if one has a BSN-RN or just RN with another degree. I have a degree already and the BSN would be my second. If you have any advice, I would greatly appreciate it, thank you much,
    jzzy
  9. by   core0
    Quote from jzzy88
    Hi augigi,
    I noticed that you said that if one has a choice of doing an masters program versus a BSN, they should do the masters. Well, I recently got accepted to an ABSN program here in San Francisco and because I missed application deadlines did not apply to any direct entry masters programs. I figured I would get the BSN-RN first, get a year or so experience and then apply to a MS program. Now I am having some second thoughts, since I really want the NP. That is my goal and I am worried that my chances of getting accepted to a masters may be decreased if I first get the BSN-RN, though I have been told that it is easier to get into a MS program if one has a BSN-RN or just RN with another degree. I have a degree already and the BSN would be my second. If you have any advice, I would greatly appreciate it, thank you much,
    jzzy
    If you look at their catalog the surgical courses are taken in the PA program. Also I am not sure how they are getting 1500 contact hours in one semester. That works out to 90 hours a week which is a lot even for residents. While I admire your desire to forge your own path, there are a lot of unknowns there. If you really desire to work in surgery, PA at UAB would be a much shorter route and more likely to get you the job you want.

    David Carpenter, PA-C
  10. by   2bNPreen
    I just graduated from an accelerated BSN/MSN program and I can't find a job! I can't believe people wouldn't hire me because I don't have any RN experience in the past. IT IS EXTREMELY UNFAIR because I had studied so hard in nursing school and I honestly thinks that YOU DON'T NEED RN TECHNICAL SKILLS in order to be a good NP. I'm so extremely mad about RNs who don't support NPs like us, BECAUSE NPS ARE NURSES TOO!!! So, if you want to enroll in an accelerated program, think again.
  11. by   mvanz9999
    How long have you been looking?

    What state are you in?
  12. by   2bNPreen
    i have been looking for 3 weeks in new york city. Hospitals will DEFINITELY wouldn't hire me, they said it straight out that I need at least a year RN experience in order to apply for any NP positions.
  13. by   AK556 APRN
    Are you wanting to be an NP in the ER?

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