Are online ANP degrees destroying our credibility?

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zenman

1 Article; 2,806 Posts

It doesn't matter zenman. Yale university does not control hiring within Yale New Haven Hospital or the Hospital of Saint Raphael, which are its two teaching hospitals.

Then they need to be confronted. You can't say you go by the latest research in your own practice but then ignore research in another field at your own whelm. Like I've said before no one uses Walkman's anymore...get with the current century.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN

1 Article; 20,908 Posts

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

Personally, I think online schools undermine the profession as a whole. I have trouble understanding how a profession that deals with the human body and human beings can learn it while sitting in their living room on an electronic devive. I also think "fake it til you make it" and being able to take the NCLEX as many times as you want to try to pass undermines the profession as well. Just my :twocents:

jilljw

32 Posts

I don't agree with you in regards to online MSN's, I did mine online and did all my clinical on a military facility including the Family Medicine residency clinic. I had the same preceptors that the PA's, MD's and NP's who attend the onsite Army schools had, I had a faculty member hired by my school who would come to my clinical site to evaluate me a few times each semester. None of my preceptors ever said that I knew any less than the other NP's or PA's at the family medicine residency clinic, or the other sites such as the pediatric clinic, or women health clinic. I'm very grateful for online education, my husband is an Officer in the military and we are constantly on the move and it afforded me the possibility to move up professionally. I graduated in December and have had several job offers including as a direct hire for the military where i did my clinical. I feel like I've had a quality education and if I had to do it all over I would do it online. Anyways, more power to you who can go to a classroom, be proud of your success and how you achieve it but don't be so judgmental of those who can't. Online NP education has existed for many years; it isn't a new thing, it's a proven and successful form of education that is here to stay.

The military does not have an NP program. They primarily uses PA's. My husband graduated from IPAP. He never saw any NP's in his Phase II training he said. In fact, there preceptors were not the same as the medical students. He said this statement is ridiculous. He was at Ft. Hood, TX when he went through, which is the largest post in the US Army. I am sure if there were NPs who shared preceptors they would have had them at FT. Hood.

jilljw

32 Posts

When you say online degrees do you mean schools like University of Phoenix or something like the BSN to DNP program at University of Michigan that is mostly online?

I did my undergrad at University of Michigan. That is what the other poster was writing about, so I responded with my undergrad school. She is pulling a 4.0 in her undergrad online.

jilljw

32 Posts

really?

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[td=colspan: 2]yale, oxford, princeton and stanford

launch 'distance learning' ventureyale, oxford, princeton and stanford universities are each providing $3 million to launch a "distance learning" venture to provide on-line courses in the arts and sciences to their combined 500,000 alumni.

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to their alumni. those who haven proven to meet their standards. i highly doubt these are degree programs.

jilljw

32 Posts

Who are you addressing? If it's me then let me inform you that I'm on call this weekend and totally responsible for the inpatient psych unit as well as floor consults from hospitalists. I've been admitting, discharging, and doing consults till I'm about to drop.

I was addressing you. Although, you don't practice medicine. You do Psych, so we shall not worry about that.

mammac5

727 Posts

I attended the Bridge program at Vanderbilt, which means I was on-site (brick & mortar) for the first year. The second year I was able to live at home with my family (NOT within commuting distance of any university) and do a combination of online lectures, research-focused scholarly writing projects, clinical hours in local primary care and specialty practices, and live lectures/clinical experiences at VUSN. In my opinion, it was quite a rigorous program. I was an older student, not used to having my education spoon-fed to me as I have seen in some of my younger colleagues and I felt very challenged by the program.

There were some online tests in the 2nd year of the program (NONE in the first year) and, yes, there were murmurs of students finding very creative ways to cheat. Our tests were NOT open book or open note; all students at VUSN sign an Honor Code statement with every test (live or online) that he/she has not used outside sources (internet, books, fellow students, spouse, etc.) in completing the test. I am also aware that some students worked very hard to find ways to cheat on 1st year tests, which were live in lecture halls and classrooms on campus. Long story, short: Those who want to be dishonest WILL be dishonest. Integrity is not guaranteed to go hand-in-hand with intellectual ability.

I came to the program with good interview skills; these were improved in on-site courses. My exam skills were learned on-site and improved during my clinical rotations - some of which were good and some of which were not so good. We performed head-to-toe exams, GYN/male GU exams, and focused exams for patients with particular complaints in front of (or on camera for) our instructors to evaluate our performance.

I believe the reputation of the school is vitally important. Those who attend a school with a reputation for producing NPs who can't perform thorough exams, can't interact with and interview patients, or who cannot use available resources to find the information needed to diagnose and treat illness will be dismissed as "one of those online students." Those who complete an ANP program that is known for having rigorous admission standards and producing graduates who are ready to practice will be called for interviews.

Specializes in ER/EHR Trainer.

Georgetown's program is online learning; however involves set classroom time-you must be on the webcam and attend the class like all of the on-campus students.

Online learning is hard and in my school there are no papers or tests that can be submitted and subsequently passed without an in-depth understanding of the subject matter. My Adv Patho class was taught by an MD who in her spare time picked up PhD's in immunology and histology. To write any paper in this class I first had to understand by reading tons of information when I was attempting to support a thesis. I say learning is about the faculty, this professor knew everything and had no problem questioning you to death to make sure you did too! Our online discussions were brutal and I cringed when I saw those new to the program as they were not prepared for the type of responses required or expected.

All in all, nursing needs to police itself and its education. To be honest, I am tired of defending myself and my education. When I had no degree I was running technical departments and in charge of million dollar budgets that affected 100s of people and was treated with respect.....I have a BSN and am working on my MSN and feel that people look down on me because I am a nurse.....what is that all about? I am sick of reminding nurses, doctors and having to educate patients that after the 2 minute doctor visit in the hospital-ONLY THE NURSE IS AVAILABLE TO CARE, MONITOR, AND INTERVENE....NO ONE ELSE!!!!!!

Until nurses begin to push publicly their concerns, work realities, what we really do, and how we are treated.....it won't matter what school you go to.....in many people's eyes you are still "just a nurse'...under those circumstances you will never be part of the team or true collaborator(no matter what they say).

M

docteri

42 Posts

I'm in an online program where we still do our clinical rotations with supervision. The test taking is not as simple as it seems. We have a camera that watches us (kinda creapy) during the test and fingerprint scanner to verify our identity. I got a letter from the proctor company about potential cheating because my cat walked in my office and jumped on my desk. No books, no spouse finding answers, no cell phones, no calculators, etc. If I chose to have an actual person proctor me the school would have to approve them. My school denied proctors from one of my classmates because they went to the same church. With the changes in the economy and increased technology, online schools will become more accepted. The quality is there, national boards are still national boards.

jilljw

32 Posts

Funny, UM is ranked #28 on the National School rankings. UCLA and Berkeley, both outstanding schools are ranked above it. The rest didn't make the cut. Look at any graduate school ranking and UM is on there too (business, law, you name it). Obviously their minority programs are not hurting their end product. Here is the linkNational University Rankings | Top National Universities | US News Best Colleges Either way that is not what this thread is about. It is about the quality of online education and if it is bringing down the entry level standards of our profession.

jilljw

32 Posts

I'm in an online program where we still do our clinical rotations with supervision. The test taking is not as simple as it seems. We have a camera that watches us (kinda creapy) during the test and fingerprint scanner to verify our identity. I got a letter from the proctor company about potential cheating because my cat walked in my office and jumped on my desk. No books, no spouse finding answers, no cell phones, no calculators, etc. If I chose to have an actual person proctor me the school would have to approve them. My school denied proctors from one of my classmates because they went to the same church. With the changes in the economy and increased technology, online schools will become more accepted. The quality is there, national boards are still national boards.

I agree national boards are the standard. I am just wondering if we should make these boards much more challenging. This would assure we are putting out the best product. That would include our recertification boards. Maybe our boards now are way too easy.

mammac5

727 Posts

I agree national boards are the standard. I am just wondering if we should make these boards much more challenging. This would assure we are putting out the best product. That would include our recertification boards. Maybe our boards now are way too easy.

I just took and passed ANCC for ANP in September, 2011 so it's pretty fresh for me. I really feel like what was tested was my ability to use critical thinking, my knowledge of and ability to apply national guidelines in a variety of patient care scenarios, my adaptability in treating diverse populations, my ability to review and evaluate current research, and my knowledge of classes of drugs (their common uses, contraindications, etc.). I do feel it was a good basic test of my safety to practice.

I can't speak for the AANP exam since I did not sit for that one.

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