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Thread Closed Available for reading only. | Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 12 |
Aug 10, 2009, 04:54 PM
Re: White House offers information on proposes health care reform Originally Posted by RedCell I DO NOT trust the government with my child's education and would never put my kid in a government indoctrination camp. This is actually a perfect example of what happens when the government controls something....they screw it up. High school grads from government skrewls are mostly bumbling idiots who could not even name who the Speaker of the House is, much less get into a discussion regarding the three branches of government in the United States. Ask a typical high school kid to solve a simple problem involving a quadratic equation. They will look at you and drool. Every year we (taxpayers) throw more money at public education and each year our kids get more stoopid! Another example…cash for clunkers. This BS lasted one week before running out of money. To save it they had to steal money from another government program. Cash for clunkers is a drop in the bucket compared to the socialist health insurance they want to force on us. Imagine how much money they will soon be stealing from us when that program fouls up. There are better plans out there that have been proposed than this Obamacare crap.
You know , let me be blunt ......we also need to clean up some of the government departments and get those deadwood out of there and replace them with functional and efficient people. I also do not trust some parts of the goverment , but to refuse a change of a failing health system is suicidal ! There are some people working for the government that are not productive , they need to be fired.But the government itself should and must and will be the primary figure to initiate this much needed health reform change.
I have to send my grandaughter to a public school because I do not have the money to send her to a private school ! So let us work on that public school too. . Not all people are RICH to afford or send their kids to a private school !!!! Do you have any idea how much that cost? People are barely eating !
You critized the health plan reform and yet you did not present any "better" plan. When you do that you are just ******** and not part of the solution. You complain but you have no alternative ....so the health reform is the "Obama crap" , what would you suggest that we do? This is the mentality that reminds me of the french revolution------ if they do not have bread then they (the people ) can eat cake !!!!! | | No. 13 |
Aug 10, 2009, 06:18 PM
Re: White House offers information on proposes health care reform Originally Posted by RedCell I DO NOT trust the government with my child's education and would never put my kid in a government indoctrination camp. This is actually a perfect example of what happens when the government controls something....they screw it up... I pay taxes and mello roos to support public school and also pay for my kids to go to private school. I was very involved with my local public school system for several years before I faced the fact that the system is inherently flawed, partly because the “customer’s” [ie] parent and students have no real power. The gov't run health care system is likely to have the same flaws. I pray it doesn't, though. I used to be on welfare and medi-Cal, I know the differences between "normal" health insurance and government run health insurance. You don’t get the same appointments, access to medicine, procedures, etc on medi-Cal. And you have no choices. I know that reform of some sort is needed. I’ve been self-employed for nearly 10 years, and for 2 of those, my DH was laid off from work. I was paying monthly for medical insurance for me and our 2 kids-as much as $300/mo, but he wasn’t covered because no-one would insure him since he had diabetes. His meds alone cost $200. I think that all areas of the problem need to be examined. The needs of people as well as the needs of the insurance companies and employers. The govt doesn’t have a record of running their own business well-like balancing the budget, running other govt programs like schools, medi-cal, etc. People need choices. Health care is too important to take away choice and options. My solution would be a simple optional plan that people without insurance could pay into and then the govt would provide care. If I had to pay a small flat tax to make that available to people who don't have insurance, then maybe that would be ok with me. I don’t think program eligibility should be income based. There are some people with “high” income who either can’t afford insurance or don’t have insurance through their job. In Cali, to be eligible for medical, you have to make less than the Federal poverty line, which used to mean that if you work full time minimum wage in
Cali, you aren’t eligible for medical. I don’t believe that the govt can afford to give away quality health care. That Whitehouse link didn’t include wording specific enough for me to believe that they will do this without creating additional problems. | | No. 14 |
Aug 10, 2009, 06:31 PM
Re: White House offers information on proposes health care reform Originally Posted by tiggerforhim http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts...ubborn-Things/
Halfway down the page: There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov.
Hmm. Stalinist Russia, anyone?
Also, try redstate.com for another view on the health care situation.
So the White House wants to make sure that the disinformation being spread by sites like RedState.com and people like Rush Limbaugh is properly addressed and asks people to let them know. This is somehow Stalinist Russia? Typical Republican boogeyman tactics. Reeks of McCarthism.
The thing is, even with the unprecedented transparency of Obama's Administration, nothing will make Republicans happy. Their whole goal is to be obstructionists at every point possible. Now they're trying to disrupts townhall meetings with these stupid antics so no discussion can occur at all. Childish really.
| | No. 15 |
Aug 10, 2009, 06:34 PM
Re: White House offers information on proposes health care reform Originally Posted by samanthaet76 @tiggerforhim:
Interesting. I always thought that Stalinist Russia was characterized by political assassinations and mass murders, not health care reform. Perhaps I should read up on my history.
Well, the tactics being used are definitely reminiscent of Stalinist Russia. You do realize that the political assassinations/mass murders were aided and abetted by tactics like this - informing on those around, whether neighbors or not. It was a very good tactic to get rid of an opponent, you know, just drop a line into the little bird's ear, and watch them get hauled away. Of course, then you yourself would get hauled away ... but oh, well, never mind. I don't object to health care reform, just this particular way of doing things. And yes, I've lived in a former Soviet republic and was spied upon as well.
| | No. 16 |
Aug 10, 2009, 06:41 PM
Re: White House offers information on proposes health care reform
Please, no one's buying this propaganda. Talk about Stalist Russia.
Its like me telling my friends to let me know if they hear any slander or libel about me so I can actually give them the truth. This isn't anything subjective either - Repuglicans are spreading simply false rumors about what is contained in the Bill ei. "Democrats are going to make you kill your grandma!"
If demonstrably false rumors were being spread about me, I would like to know about it so I can at least try to get the truth out there.
| | No. 17 |
Aug 10, 2009, 06:42 PM
Re: White House offers information on proposes health care reform Originally Posted by vintagemother I pay taxes and mello roos to support public school and also pay for my kids to go to private school. I was very involved with my local public school system for several years before I faced the fact that the system is inherently flawed, partly because the “customer’s” [ie] parent and students have no real power. The gov't run health care system is likely to have the same flaws. I pray it doesn't, though. I used to be on welfare and medi-Cal, I know the differences between "normal" health insurance and government run health insurance. You don’t get the same appointments, access to medicine, procedures, etc on medi-Cal. And you have no choices. I know that reform of some sort is needed. I’ve been self-employed for nearly 10 years, and for 2 of those, my DH was laid off from work. I was paying monthly for medical insurance for me and our 2 kids-as much as $300/mo, but he wasn’t covered because no-one would insure him since he had diabetes. His meds alone cost $200. I think that all areas of the problem need to be examined. The needs of people as well as the needs of the insurance companies and employers. The govt doesn’t have a record of running their own business well-like balancing the budget, running other govt programs like schools, medi-cal, etc. People need choices. Health care is too important to take away choice and options. My solution would be a simple optional plan that people without insurance could pay into and then the govt would provide care. If I had to pay a small flat tax to make that available to people who don't have insurance, then maybe that would be ok with me. I don’t think program eligibility should be income based. There are some people with “high” income who either can’t afford insurance or don’t have insurance through their job. In Cali, to be eligible for medical, you have to make less than the Federal poverty line, which used to mean that if you work full time minimum wage in Cali, you aren’t eligible for medical. I don’t believe that the govt can afford to give away quality health care. That Whitehouse link didn’t include wording specific enough for me to believe that they will do this without creating additional problems. 
Very astute w/ your thinking. Thank you for that . all the things you said , and that is probably why the "government " word is scaring everybody , simply because they do not have a good track record. I am not arguing and defending blindly . It is just that we really need an alternative , another venue aside from the private insurance. One of the Rockefeller's quoted , that the private insurance is in the game for the money---- now coming from a rich , rich man , that is a credible opinion,don't you think?
The point is that I like the idea that there is a competetion for the private insurance and will make premiums lower , not to mention to allow the "high risks" or pre existence to be insured ! With the goverment offering an alternative , it will create a competetion ....and like any businessess , it is good for the consumer or customer to have this competetion for better and affordable prices. Yes, we have a long way to overhaul the whole system , and this health care reform is a start, so let us be a part of the solution to fix the system. | | No. 18 |
Aug 10, 2009, 06:51 PM
Re: White House offers information on proposes health care reform
Republican argument out of their playbook.
1. Every public school isn't great. This is because of the government. Thus, everything the government is involved in will be bad including healthcare.
Please...if this is the level of your critical thinking, I really have nothing else to add. For one, school performance is clearly much more complex than it being funded by the government. Socioeconomic factors, family lives, nutrition, teachers, etc are all factors. Furthermore, state government controls education more than the Federal Government.
Secondly, I went to a public school and graduated magma cum laude from a top 50 Public university. 85% of my graduating class went to college. I'm pretty happy with my education. But of course, this doesn't mean all public school are good. But it doesn't mean they're all bad either.
This generalization that everything government touches is intellectually lazy at best and political propaganda at worst. I'm confident that most people on this board can cut through this weak argument.
| | No. 19 |
Aug 10, 2009, 08:04 PM
Re: White House offers information on proposes health care reform Originally Posted by maritesa You critized the health plan reform and yet you did not present any "better" plan. When you do that you are just ******** and not part of the solution. You complain but you have no alternative ....so the health reform is the "Obama crap" , what would you suggest that we do? This is the mentality that reminds me of the french revolution------ if they do not have bread then they (the people ) can eat cake !!!!!  I see this mantra repeated a lot on my favorite website (other than allnurses of course) democraticunderground. The fact of the matter is that there have been other ideas presented that were largely drawn up by guys like Ryan, Kyl, Coburn etc. The plans require more personal accountability and less government involvement. Due to the current liberal majority in the legislative and executive branches, the alternative solutions have been ignored because they do not involve increasing the power of the government. I cannot see how anyone who has actually read Barry’s bill can come away and give it their support. I think Tiggerforhim is on to something! Marx could not have done a better job if he had written this bill himself. “From each according to his ability to each according to his need” is the basic theme of this crazed document. A couple of snippets from the goodies that can be found inside…. -Government committees to decide on treatments -Mandatory requirement for private insurance to participate in the healthcare exchange -An appointment of a Healthcare commissioner to decide health benefits for you (we have more czars in the USA now than mother Russia ever had) -Section 1401 alone is one of the silliest strings of consonants and vowels I have ever seen! -Hospitals being monetarily penalized if big brother does not deem you followed their treatment plan Seriously man, the hits just keep on coming the more you get into this thing. I encourage people to go a step beyond their elected officials and actually read this thing.
By the way, nothing in the government is efficient. Take a look at the Postal Service. Another government entity that asks for more money each year,yet continues to provide the American public with unpredictable and lackluster service.
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