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A universal single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system could help lift tens of mi



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No. 30
from herring_RN
Old Jan 31, 2009, 05:18 PM

Default Re: A universal single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system could help lift tens o
I love our country and believe we can do better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dq4U...e=channel_page

Women can vote now, no more slavery, no more torture.
I believe WE can improve OUR country.

One step back and then two steps forward.
And teach our children how to move ahead.
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No. 31
from Pierrette
Old Jan 31, 2009, 05:21 PM

Default Re: A universal single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system could help lift tens o
Originally Posted by HM2Viking View Post
I was reading over at PNHP today. Administrative costs are even worse than we thought. Its 38% for our efficient private system. Duke University Hospital has more billing clerks than nurses!
Originally Posted by Tweety View Post
Although, I'm wondering the accuracy of the statement about Duke. When I worked there, we had about 2000 nurses. I'm finding it hard to believe there are over 2000 billing clerks.
Actually, the article says
Professor Uwe Reinhardt, who is also on the board of trustees of the 900-bed Duke University Hospital, used Duke to illustrate the problem: “We have 900 billing clerks at Duke. I’m not sure we have a nurse per (each) bed...
A further quote from this article:
In August 2003, Drs. Woolhandler, Campbell and Himmelstein published a study of health-care administrative costs in the U.S. and Canada. They stated that administrative expenditures in the U.S. stood at 31 percent of overall health-care costs.
A look at this study prompted some further studies, as reported in the New England Journal of Medicine:
However, the Canadian single-payer system results in chronic shortages of medical services because of underfunding.
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/349/25/2461

Regardless of what the actual figure is, administrative costs appear high in the U.S.
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No. 32
from RN4MERCY
Old Jan 31, 2009, 05:31 PM

Lightbulb Re: A universal single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system could help lift tens o
[quote=Jolie;3409966]
Originally Posted by HM2Viking View Post
PHRMA wrote the part D bill. /QUOTE]

Because our elected officials sold out tax-paying U.S. citizens and LET them. Why on earth should we believe that any future government program would be handled any differently?
Because we're going to commit to being more vigilant. If we unite collectively and repeatedly drive our message home and refuse to allow our interests to be hijacked, we can change things. We took it to the streets and raised a mighty voice in the voting booth. No rubberstamp on the status quo. That's how we ended slavery. That's how we won the right to vote for women. That's how we ended segregation and discrimination on the basis of color and gender and demanded equal educational opportunity. We can't let special interest politicians cut enforcement budgets and look the other way when a lack of public oversight hurts people. The government should and does exist for the benefit of the governed. We can't deprive the government of resources and then call it a failure.
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No. 33
Old Jan 31, 2009, 05:57 PM

Default Re: A universal single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system could help lift tens o
[quote=Jolie;3409966]
Originally Posted by HM2Viking View Post
PHRMA wrote the part D bill. /QUOTE]

Because our elected officials sold out tax-paying U.S. citizens and LET them. Why on earth should we believe that any future government program would be handled any differently?
The GOP congress was voted out with the next election cycle. The political process is going to solve this problem. We simply can't continue to have the double digit health care inflation year in/year out.
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No. 34
from Jolie
Old Jan 31, 2009, 07:44 PM
Updated Jan 31, 2009 at 07:50 PM by Jolie

Default Re: A universal single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system could help lift tens o
Originally Posted by RN4MERCY View Post

Because we're going to commit to being more vigilant. If we unite collectively and repeatedly drive our message home and refuse to allow our interests to be hijacked, we can change things.
Would that change include support of the Representatives and Senators who, just 3 months ago, voted $700B in bail-outs to the banks without oversight as to the use of that money? The very same legislators who are now kicking, screaming and beating their chests because the banks (and the businesses that became banks just to get their hands on bail-out money) have used those funds, not to extend loans to qualified consumers, but to remodel offices, fly corporate jets and pay handsome executive bonuses because they were not subject to oversight by the boneheaded lawmakers who handed them our money?

Do you really believe that the politicians in Washington are looking out for the best interests of the taxpayers? Isn't this a pretty strong indicator that they are not, either out of indifference, stupidity or outright greed?

Do you really want these people to devise a health care system and mandate you to use it and pay for it?

If so, God bless you.

I don't. I wouldn't trust them with the Girl Scout cookie fund.
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No. 35
from Jolie
Old Jan 31, 2009, 07:49 PM
Updated Feb 01, 2009 at 09:22 AM by Jolie

Default Re: A universal single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system could help lift tens o
Originally Posted by HM2Viking View Post

The GOP congress was voted out with the next election cycle. The political process is going to solve this problem. We simply can't continue to have the double digit health care inflation year in/year out.
Your response made me chuckle.

Unlike this week's House vote on the $ trillion stimulus package, Medicare Part D Bill passed with bi-partisan support. I vividly remember both Reps and Dems rushing to the microphone to congratulate themselves for passing this debacle of legislation, wanting credit for their compassion for seniors, even though anyone who had researched the legislation at all knew that it was a mess in the making.

You get to share the credit for this mess.
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No. 36
from RN4MERCY
Old Jan 31, 2009, 11:45 PM

Lightbulb Re: A universal single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system could help lift tens o
Originally Posted by Jolie View Post
Would that change include support of the Representatives and Senators who, just 3 months ago, voted $700B in bail-outs to the banks without oversight as to the use of that money? The very same legislators who are now kicking, screaming and beating their chests because the banks (and the businesses that became banks just to get their hands on bail-out money) have used those funds, not to extend loans to qualified consumers, but to remodel offices, fly corporate jets and pay handsome executive bonuses because they were not subject to oversight by the boneheaded lawmakers who handed them our money?

Do you really believe that the politicians in Washington are looking out for the best interests of the taxpayers? Isn't this a pretty strong indicator that they are not, either out of indifference, stupidity or outright greed?

Do you really want these people to devise a health care system and mandate you to use it and pay for it?

If so, God bless you.

I don't. I wouldn't trust them with the Girl Scout cookie fund.
Yes, the legislators who hastily passed the bank bailout are pounding their chests and demanding accountability. The deregulation and lack of oversight that occurred during the past 8 years came home to roost. The writing was on the wall and several prominant economists warned of the dangers. Bush and his cronies have their fingerprints all over the mess. If I'm not mistaken, the first half of the funds were dispersed before the new administration was sworn in. Certainly the process was tainted and clearly people are outraged. It's going to be a bit like trying to put toothpaste back into the tube at this point. I am confident that the Obama administration will do as promised and investigate, put safeguards in place, and limit the damage. Haste makes waste in this case. So far Obama and his new cabinet and the newly elected members of Congress have had to hit the ground running. I have no reason not to trust them at this point, but we can't turn our backs either or sit idly by if we suspect something is wrong. Trust has to be earned. It's our government!

However, when it comes to a single payer health plan, we have had 30 years of market-based insurance company failures and fraud. I say ENOUGH! We do have a successful single-payer plan in this country: Medicare. From what I've read, we can and should be able to expand it and improve it so that it covers everyone. The fat cats have been systematically trying to privatize it and parcel the benefits off to industry. But it would be political suicide for anyone to propose doing away with it...which is evidence of its popularity. It is the most efficient system with only a 3% to 4% administrative cost, and a transparent billing and reimbursement system for covered services. (As opposed to the hundreds of insurers and thousands of plans...talk about a horrific and unjust bureaucracy!) We don't have to reinvent the wheel here because we can study and learn from the other industrialized countries that have a single payer system.

The task will be to hold the politician's feet to the fire on this one. Yes, we have new leadership, and we must prevent them from acting in haste and passing legislation that masquerades as real reform. You can say what you want about the government, but at least we will have a transparent system. There are good public service and career public employees who love this country and want to do the right thing. With good leadership and public scruitiny, we can win a plan that will meet our needs for health care. It's not a dream, it's legislation: HR 676.

The good news is that we can not only save money and cover everyone with a single payer plan; a universal health care system will create jobs and stimulate the economy. A new study just released from the Institute from Health and Socio-Economic Policy predicts that expanding Medicare to cover everyone would lead to 2.6 million new jobs, $317 billion in new business and public revenue, and $44 billion in new tax revenue. The Leadership Conference for Guaranteed Health Care supports HR 676, a bill that calls for a “Medicare-for-All” system. Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) has reintroduced HR 676 January 26th, 2009. The first 30 cosponsors signed on in the first hour after it was introduced -- there are 86 cosponsors in the House from the 110th Congress who have been sworn into the 111th session.

Please continue to write, call, and lobby your representatives. If your congress person is a cosponsor consider sending a thank you letter or holding an event to thank him. Lobby efforts are starting to be tracked through www.guaranteedhealthcare4all.org. Please check out the site and submit information about what is happening in your congressional district to support HR 676. We need your help to make this tool work. If you can be a district contact person, please let us know. We will post your name and email with your district to the site.

If your Congress person has not yet cosponsored HR 676, ask them why not? What will it take to get them to cosponsor? Then let’s make it happen!
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No. 37
Old Feb 01, 2009, 01:01 AM

Default Re: A universal single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system could help lift tens o
The margin of "victory" for the Part D legislaton was driven by GOP congressman:

The bill was introduced in the House of Representatives early on June 25, 2003 as H.R. 1, sponsored by Speaker Dennis Hastert. All that day and the next the bill was debated, and it was apparent that the bill would be very divisive. In the early morning of June 27, a floor vote was taken. After the initial electronic vote, the count stood at 214 yeas, 218 nays.
Three Republican representatives then changed their votes. One opponent of the bill, Ernest J. Istook, Jr. (R-OK-5), changed his vote to "present" upon being told that C.W. Bill Young (R-FL-10), who was absent due to a death in the family, would have voted "aye" if he had been present. Next, Republicans Butch Otter (ID-1) and Jo Ann Emerson (MO-8) switched their vote to "aye" under pressure from the party leadership. The bill passed by one vote, 216-215.
at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicar...ernization_Act

However Bush adminstration staffers did suppress the true cost of the bill.

In July 2004, it was revealed that Thomas A. Scully, Medicare Administrator, had ordered Richard Foster, a Medicare actuary, to withhold information from Congress on pain of termination. Foster had projected that the bill would cost at least 139 billion dollars more than the White House was claiming.
at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicar...ernization_Act
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No. 38
from Tweety
Old Feb 01, 2009, 05:27 AM
Updated Feb 01, 2009 at 04:47 PM by Tweety

Default Re: A universal single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system could help lift tens o
Originally Posted by Pierrette View Post
Actually, the article says...........
So what this guy is saying is that it takes one full-time clerk per patient to take care of billing??? Still doesn't ring true to me.

Duke is so much more than just the 900 beds in the main building, it's sprawling with clinics, outpatient surgical centers, etc. practically a city in itself.
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No. 39
from Jolie
Old Feb 01, 2009, 09:29 AM

Default Re: A universal single-payer, not-for-profit healthcare system could help lift tens o
Originally Posted by RN4MERCY View Post
Yes, the legislators who hastily passed the bank bailout are pounding their chests and demanding accountability. The deregulation and lack of oversight that occurred during the past 8 years came home to roost.
Why did those lawmakers not demand accountability before handing out hundreds of billions of dollars of our hard-earned money? The current hue and cry over the misappropriation of the bailout money is a bit hypocritical, don't you think, given that it's coming from he same idiots that had the ability to place controls on how the money was spent?

Yes, poor financial practices of the past are coming home to roost. The answer to that is not to hand over more money to those who have already proven an inability to manage it responsibly.
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