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| No. 10 |
May 05, 2009, 08:49 PM
Re: Single-payer advocates disrupt Senate Finance Committee.
Every regional attempt at a single payer in the US has failed? I would be interested to know what you mean by that. Are you talking about the Massachusetts plan?
Whether it's the first hearing on the issue or the last, it's still important. Essentially, a large group of Americans (single-payer advocates) were excluded from these proceedings, which is perhaps why one of the protestors asked the simple question of why single-payer advocates were not present. I agree, they were out of order. There are times however, when we can't follow the proper channels and expect our voices be heard.
| | Advertisement Sponsored Links | | | | No. 12 |
May 05, 2009, 09:07 PM
Re: Single-payer advocates disrupt Senate Finance Committee.
Most of the leadership of both parties receives donatioons and is lobbied by the insurance industry.
Can't trust most Democrats or Republicans. The President is NOT leading either. It is up to WE THE PEOPLE to do all we can to put all ideas on the table.
YES WE CAN! | | No. 13 |
May 05, 2009, 09:09 PM
Re: Single-payer advocates disrupt Senate Finance Committee. The people who interrupted the meeting were acting in a well-organized and well-planned manner. They knew exactly what they would accomplish by their actions, and that was to get attention and sympathy, not a seat at the table.
They wanted to bring attention to the fact that no advocates of single-payer were present at the forum, and they did. Again, they felt they had to do it that way because no advocates of single-payer were invited to the forum. You need to direct this question to the leadership of the Democrat Party, which holds the Chairmanship and a majority of the seats on the Senate Finance Committee. It is their job to set the agenda. Again, I find it ironic that the Dems, who promise improved access to healthcare for all have failed to listen to the constituents who desire a single-payor system. Rascals!
I have. Including Max Baucas, the president and a senator. It's interesting that politicians will at times, only take notice in a situation like the one we saw today.
Democrats and Republicans alike promised to improve access to health care, many single-payer advocates believed (and still believe) that democrats would be more likely to consider a single-payer option as opposed to republicans. I find it highly unlikely that any republican politician would ever entertain a single-payer option. So, when considering the single-payer option and who to sell it too, it's basicall a waste of time to go to a republican. I don't see the irony.
| | No. 14 |
May 05, 2009, 09:41 PM
Re: Single-payer advocates disrupt Senate Finance Committee. Originally Posted by GCTMT
...many single-payer advocates believed (and still believe) that democrats would be more likely to consider a single-payer option as opposed to republicans. I find it highly unlikely that any republican politician would ever entertain a single-payer option. As do I.
So, when considering the single-payer option and who to sell it too, it's basicall a waste of time to go to a republican. I don't see the irony.
The irony is that the party which these advocates have supported and trusted is ignoring them. Perhaps they would be better off cozying up to Repbulicans. They certainly couldn't be any worse off.
Please don't misunderstand me. I'm all for effective communication techniques in getting one's point across. Nothing wrong with a little civil disobedience as far as I'm concerned.
I just chuckle at the breathless statements that people were arrested for advocating for single-payor healthcare when that is not at all the reason for their arrest.
| | No. 15 |
May 06, 2009, 01:14 AM
Re: Single-payer advocates disrupt Senate Finance Committee. Originally Posted by Honnête et Sérieux I believe that healthcare is a human right, along with many other rights, but I don't believe that the gov't or any other taxpayer has any obligation to pay for my rights.
I also don't believe that the definition of a right means I can behave like a drunken sailor and shout over the normal order of things.
We pay for your clean water, your public libraries, your public school system, your streets, parks, sidewalks, and your police and fire protection.
Why should healthcare be any different?
Did you watch the CSPAN? I didn't see any "drunken sailors." Just physicians and nurses and community members who've seen real people suffer and die for lack of basic, medically necessary health care.
What I see is a speeding health insurance industry locomotive barreling down the tracks of unrestrained greed decimating our health care system. What do you consider the "normal order" of things in this situation, considering there was a room full of industry executives and their political handmaidens who've all but announced that they see nothing wrong with the current system? They refuse to have a debate and a side by side comparison between single payer and mandate plans. THEY REFUSE, despite the overwhelming public support for single payer. THEY REFUSE to represent the best interests of the electorate. THEY REFUSE to do anything except carry on with business as usual politics.
"The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the government." Abraham Lincoln
"It was once said that the moral test of Government is how that Government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped." Hubert Humphrey | | No. 16 |
May 06, 2009, 02:12 AM
Re: Single-payer advocates disrupt Senate Finance Committee. Originally Posted by GCTMT Every regional attempt at a single payer in the US has failed? I would be interested to know what you mean by that. Are you talking about the Massachusetts plan?
Whether it's the first hearing on the issue or the last, it's still important. Essentially, a large group of Americans (single-payer advocates) were excluded from these proceedings, which is perhaps why one of the protestors asked the simple question of why single-payer advocates were not present. I agree, they were out of order. There are times however, when we can't follow the proper channels and expect our voices be heard.
Mass. for starters.
On to Hawaii, which plan lasted about 8 months.
California, which died before vote because the legislature know just by looking at it that it wasn't affordable.
And then there was Wisconsin, which failed to pass because the proposed 15% additional payroll tax was ridiculous, and even advocates acknowledged that it would result in the loss of thousands of jobs.
| | No. 17 |
May 06, 2009, 02:31 AM
Re: Single-payer advocates disrupt Senate Finance Committee. We pay for your clean water, your public libraries, your public school system, your streets, parks, sidewalks, and your police and fire protection.
Why should healthcare be any different?
Here we go with the fatally flawed police and fire protection analogies. Of course, this is the first time I saw water added into the mix, but the reality is that nobody gets cheaper water than someone else. Everyone pays for their consumption, and when they don't pay, it's shut off.
For every tax-funded police officer, there are two (or more, some say upwards of 3-5) people employed in a private capacity to fill in the gaps. And our "fire protection" is provided primarily by volunteers. I don't think you are proposing a health-care system where 70% of the RN's, physicians, and support staff are volunteering at whim and responding from home to take care of patients when they feel like it...
And I hope I never see the day where our healthcare system is run and funded like libraries or the street department. Did you watch the CSPAN? I didn't see any "drunken sailors." Just physicians and nurses and community members who've seen real people suffer and die for lack of basic, medically necessary health care.
How do you know what they've seen? And they were behaving like "drunken sailors" in that they were shouting out out of order, refusing to listen to what they were being told, and disrupting the scheduled order. What I see is a speeding health insurance industry locomotive barreling down the tracks of unrestrained greed decimating our health care system. What do you consider the "normal order" of things in this situation, considering there was a room full of industry executives and their political handmaidens who've all but announced that they see nothing wrong with the current system? They refuse to have a debate and a side by side comparison between single payer and mandate plans. THEY REFUSE, despite the overwhelming public support for single payer. THEY REFUSE to represent the best interests of the electorate. THEY REFUSE to do anything except carry on with business as usual politics.
Untrue; there have been discussions on UHC, hearings, and this was certainly not the final one. Given the historical lack of support for measures that have actually made it to vote, or the failure of measures that have been implemented, and also given the fact that Obama has not supported a universal system, then it's likely that this hearing was planned and designed appropriately. Pelosi and Reid can bring it back to the table if they want, but this gives no one any privilege to be disruptive and behave that way. "The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the government." Abraham Lincoln
"It was once said that the moral test of Government is how that Government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped." Hubert Humphrey
Humphrey also said this, "The impersonal hand of government can never replace the helping hand of a neighbor" and "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously."
I don't know what the Lincoln quote has to do with it, but Abe also said this, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt" and "Don't worry when you are not recognized, but strive to be worthy of recognition."
| | No. 18 |
May 06, 2009, 09:39 AM
Re: Single-payer advocates disrupt Senate Finance Committee. Originally Posted by Honnête et Sérieux Mass. for starters.
On to Hawaii, which plan lasted about 8 months.
California, which died before vote because the legislature know just by looking at it that it wasn't affordable.
And then there was Wisconsin, which failed to pass because the proposed 15% additional payroll tax was ridiculous, and even advocates acknowledged that it would result in the loss of thousands of jobs.
Neither Massachusetts nor Hawaii had a single payer insurance plan.
The California single payer bill passed both houses of the legislature TWICE.
It was vetoed by the governor.
2006 - http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/3751/
2008 - http://www.californiaprogressreport....ath_gover.html | | No. 19 |
May 06, 2009, 09:43 AM
Re: Single-payer advocates disrupt Senate Finance Committee.
Doctors, Single Payer Activists Arrested, Make History at Senate Finance Roundtable ...The protestors were stoic and respectful but direct. One by one they stood. One by one they asked why single payer reform was not "at the table" of 15 witnesses Senator Max Baucus and his finance Committee gathered to map out what sort of coverage Americans might expect in the Senate reform bill now being crafted.
Sen. Baucus eventually spoke and indicated that he was respectful of those who believe in single payer – as he acknowledged many of his constituents in Montana do – but he made no attempt to explain why no single payer voice has been included in any Senate discussion to date. ...
... While this Congress may pass something very different than single payer reform, it will not do so without hearing the cries of the people left so openly exposed to personal health and financial ruin by the corrupt system that celebrates only profit.
The citizens who stood for the thousands and thousands of dead today will not let this democracy give itself completely over to the big money interests in healthcare. Not without a fight. Not on their lives or yours or mine.... http://www.calnurses.org/media-cente...e.html?print=t | | 296 members
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