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Obama's health plan takes shape



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No. 10
Old Jun 07, 2009, 12:59 AM

Default Re: Obama's health plan takes shape
This is very, very disappointing. I had expected better from President Obama and the Democrats, and while I know they're up against an almost impossible-to-defeat insurance juggernaut, I hate to see them knuckle under without even putting up a fight.

I'm afraid that mandating that people carry health insurance will only make things WORSE, not better. Where's the incentive to make insurance affordable? Where's the encouragement to make plans more uniform and cut down on some of the paperwork? And where, oh where, is the rule that says insurance companies can no longer "cherry-pick" and deny people coverage for pre-existing conditions?

I don't see any of that being dealt with in any meaningful way here. This, in fact, sounds to me like the worst of all possible worlds---no real change in the way health care is paid for, PLUS higher taxes and fewer jobs. Phooey.
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No. 11
from blue note
Old Jun 07, 2009, 07:27 PM

Default Re: Obama's health plan takes shape
Originally Posted by VivaLasViejas View Post
This is very, very disappointing. I had expected better from President Obama and the Democrats, and while I know they're up against an almost impossible-to-defeat insurance juggernaut, I hate to see them knuckle under without even putting up a fight.
I hear ya! I'm a die-hard liberal, but yeah, it's very sad to see that too many Dems can be bought and paid for by the big insurance companies as well. It's why Baucus first shut out single-payer advocates from the discussion, but I also take it as a good sign that he has been forced to reverse his position due to feedback from his constituents in Montana. We need to make this happen for every politician who doesn't at least consider single-payer as a viable option.

I'm afraid that mandating that people carry health insurance will only make things WORSE, not better. Where's the incentive to make insurance affordable? Where's the encouragement to make plans more uniform and cut down on some of the paperwork? And where, oh where, is the rule that says insurance companies can no longer "cherry-pick" and deny people coverage for pre-existing conditions?
The insurance companies claim they won't deny coverage for pre-existing conditions but without any price controls, it is entirely meaningless! I mean, they can set the price at $5000 a month and still claim they are not denying coverage, right? But unless you're Oprah or Bill Gates, fat lot of good that will do ya!

I used to think that if the mandate came with a public option, it might be an improvement, but I think I've changed my mind after watching Bill Moyers Journal where two single-payer advocate doctors explained why it was not a good idea. From the transcript of that interview:

BILL MOYERS: There aren't any details. But he seems to be advocating a public option that would compete with the private insurance-driven sector, as a way of lowering the cost. What do you think about it? Is that- am I reading his plan correctly?

DR. DAVID HIMMELSTEIN: Well, most of the cost savings he's talking about are really illusory, I think. And my research group has done most of the research work on administrative costs in health care. And the administrative costs he's talking about saving are a tiny fraction of the potential savings under single-payer. 'Cause hospitals have to keep their bureaucracy, if you're dealing with hundreds of different plans. And doctors have to keep the bureaucracy in our office. You don't actually get the streamlining that you get from having one payer that has one set of rules and can pay lump sum budgets to hospitals. But more than that, we're worried that the public plan actually becomes a dumping ground for the unprofitable patients. As it's happening in Medicare.

BILL MOYERS: What do you mean? How would that happen?

DR. DAVID HIMMELSTEIN: Well, the private insurers have all kinds of tricks to avoid sick patients, who are the expensive patients. So, you put your signup office on the second floor of a walkup building. And people who can't navigate stairs are the expensive people.

DR. SIDNEY WOLFE: Get rid of the heart failure patients.

DR. DAVID HIMMELSTEIN: Or you have your signup dinners in a rural area at night, where only relatively healthy people are able to drive and stay up that late. So, there's a whole science to how you sign up selectively healthier patients. And the insurance industry spends millions and millions of dollars on that. And would continue to as they've done under Medicare. Selectively recruiting healthier patients, who are the profitable ones, leaving the losses to the public plan.

And there's really, despite regulations in Medicare that says you can't do that, that's continued to happen. And it means that every time a patient signs up with a private plan under Medicare, we pay 15 percent more than we would pay if that same patient were in the Medicare program.
I also have to throw this bit in:
DR. SIDNEY WOLFE: Over the last 30 plus years there have been maybe two and a half, three times more doctors and nurses. Pretty much in proportion with the growth in population. There are 30 times, 3-0 times more health administrators. These people are not doctors. They're not nurses. They're not pharmacists. They're not providing care. Many of them are being paid to deny care. So, they are fighting with the doctors, with the hospitals to see how few bills can be paid. That's how the insurance industry thrives by denying care, paying as little out as it can, getting the healthiest patients, and yet getting reimbursed as though these patients were sicker than they really are.

So, it's a system that is guaranteed to waste a lot of money. And what we've said is that the amount of money that's just being wasted in one year is enough to pay for more than enough of the premiums for those that are uninsured and the people that are underinsured. So, it's not a matter of bringing more money. I mean, the industry is now saying, "We could save $2 trillion over the next ten years. Let us. Trust us. We will lower our costs and everything." The amount that can be saved over the next ten years by just eliminating the health insurance industry is $4 trillion, in one fell swoop.
Half-baked measures that appease the insurance companies would be a disaster for reform and a set back for future reform because conservatives would latch on to any failures as evidence that the "free market" is the only answer. No matter how much money the health insurance industry throws into politicians' coffers, they are still answerable to the voters - getting that message across to Baucus was a start but single-payer advocates need to keep the pressure on every decision maker.
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No. 12
from GCTMT
Old Jun 07, 2009, 08:53 PM

Default Re: Obama's health plan takes shape
Originally Posted by blue note View Post
Half-baked measures that appease the insurance companies would be a disaster for reform and a set back for future reform because conservatives would latch on to any failures as evidence that the "free market" is the only answer.
Yes, I fear that is correct. If there is a public option (and I certainly hope we atleast get that) you can rest assured every time it burps or farts the conservatives will scream bloody murder. I still remain hopeful however that the plan we see will put us on a reasonable path to single-payer, even though this plan seems to be just a mess, pure and simple.

It's interesting that Obama once advocated a single-payer system and actually explained how to accomplish it. He said the White House, and Congress would have to be controlled by dems.. , so much for that idea Mr. President.
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No. 13
from RNMS
Old Jun 08, 2009, 06:39 AM

Default Re: Obama's health plan takes shape
How we can all do our part:

http://www.larouchepac.com/lpactv?nid=10567
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No. 14
from blue note
Old Jun 08, 2009, 10:50 AM

Default Re: Obama's health plan takes shape
Originally Posted by RNMS View Post
LPACTV: A Preview of Obama's Nazi 'Reform'
LPACTV: Obama's First 100 Days: A Case For Impeachment?
LPACTV: Not So fast, President Hitler (with a pic of Obama)
LPACTV: After All, the British Created Hitler

And that is relevant, how?
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No. 15
Old Jun 08, 2009, 01:52 PM

Default Re: Obama's health plan takes shape
Whooeeee, I didn't even know that nut job was still around...........thought he'd long since gone to that great political convention in the sky.
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No. 16
from RNMS
Old Jun 09, 2009, 11:20 AM

Default Re: Obama's health plan takes shape
Here's some more "nutjobs" speaking about the "plan":

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/9...d_nurses_union
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No. 17
from herring_RN
Old Jun 09, 2009, 12:26 PM

Default Re: Obama's health plan takes shape
Originally Posted by RNMS View Post
Here's some more "nutjobs" speaking about the "plan":

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/9...d_nurses_union
Thank you.

Listen and/or read and make up your mind.
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No. 18
from blue note
Old Jun 09, 2009, 04:39 PM

Default Re: Obama's health plan takes shape
Originally Posted by RNMS View Post
Here's some more "nutjobs" speaking about the "plan":

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/6/9...d_nurses_union
If you have an opinion, have the balls to express it. Deliberately posting cryptic links, trying to trick people into going to web sites run by whackos who equate Obama with Hitler, is troll-like behavior.

Thanks for the link though - people can read and decide for themselves who the real nutjobs are.
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No. 19
from blue note
Old Jun 10, 2009, 07:51 PM

Default Re: Obama's health plan takes shape
Posting here as it is related:
Health Care Overhaul Opponents Use Selective Stats
Source: NPR

It's become one of the most commonly cited statistics by opponents of the health overhaul being put together by Democrats in Congress: Creating a new government-run public health insurance plan would result in 119 million people losing their private insurance.

Here was Senate Finance Committee ranking Republican Charles Grassley on MSNBC just Tuesday: "My objection to the public option is based upon the Lewin think tank ... study that says 119 million people will opt out of private health insurance."

"According to a recent study, a new public plan would cause almost 120 million Americans to lose their private coverage," echoed Sen. Orrin Hatch.

But is it really true? Yes and no.

"The number of 119 million is absolutely correct," says John Sheils, senior vice president of the Lewin Group, a number-crunching consulting group owned by Ingenix, which is a subsidiary of UnitedHealth Group.

But that number hardly represents the entirety of the report Sheils and colleague Randy Haught put out in April. The point of the study was to show that the number of people who would eventually join a government-sponsored public insurance plan would vary — dramatically — depending on how that plan is designed.

If the public plan is open to everyone and pays health care providers rates similar to those paid by the government-run Medicare program, which are lower than most private insurers pay, "you'd have a lower premium level and thus [more] people go into it," says Sheils.

But if the public plan is limited to fewer people (perhaps only those in small businesses and individuals), or if the plan pays higher rates to doctors and hospitals, fewer people would join, both because fewer would be allowed and because the plan would be less financially attractive. According to the study, the number of people dropping private coverage could be as low as 10.4 million.
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