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I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.



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No. 170
Old Jul 04, 2009, 12:45 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by nicurn001 View Post
The bottom line is for whatever reason a patient presents themselves in an ER without insurance , we pay for it either through taxes for the uninsured or higher premiums if privately insured.
We can argue the number of uninsured , but ,you cannot simply remove uninsured people from the total because they are not legally here or chose not to insure themselves , unfortunately when they become patients , their care has to be paid for .
The reason we need to know WHY people don't have insurance is to solve the problems of WHY.

And the answer doesn't need to be government health care.

There are other answers.

We libertarian and conservative folks just don't think the government's role is to mandate health care options.

Medicare is a huge mess. That in itself should be a warning . ..

steph
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No. 171
from nicurn001
Old Jul 04, 2009, 06:08 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by Spidey's mom View Post
The reason we need to know WHY people don't have insurance is to solve the problems of WHY.

And the answer doesn't need to be government health care.

There are other answers.

We libertarian and conservative folks just don't think the government's role is to mandate health care options.

Medicare is a huge mess. That in itself should be a warning . ..

steph
I think here we are both in agreement , in that we believe the problem is getting everybody to pay for healthcare coverage , where we differ is how and to whom we get everybody to pay for healthcare .

In an honest attempt to compare actual costs of Healthcare insurance in the US system against single payor system , I googled average family cost USA health insurance ,averaged the numbers provided by the Association of Healthcare Plans ( R)$5800, The Coalition for Healthcare (L)$12000 , The Center for Budget and Policy Priorities ( C)$7000 , this gave a figure of $8266 / family .In this or another thread a UK contributor said the National Insurance contribution ( the way the NHS is financed )is 6.5% of income , that % of the average US family income (2007) is $3265 . So ,( admittedly in my quick analysis ) it would appear that there is a possibility of a major savings to famillies if we were to use a single payor system ie.$8266 - $3265 = $5001

Conservatives / libertarians such as youself appear to believe the free market is the best selfregulatory system and most efficient in providing services . While I feel that self regulation does not work ( there are many causes for the present economic crisis , but certainly the foxes were watching the hen house when it came to regulating the financial system )and the profit motive have always worked against provision of healthcare to all at a price all can afford.

I think you could argue that HM2Vikings post of the WHO report appears to show that our present hybrid system somehow creats the most expensive halthcare system in the world .
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No. 172
Old Jul 05, 2009, 02:46 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by nicurn001 View Post

I think you could argue that HM2Vikings post of the WHO report appears to show that our present hybrid system somehow creats the most expensive halthcare system in the world .

As I mentioned regarding infant mortality stats - the way they get stats is questionable.

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9236

WHO's Fooling Who? The World Health Organization's Problematic Ranking of Health Care Systems

by Glen Whitman


The World Health Report 2000, prepared by the World Health Organization, presented performance rankings of 191 nations' health care systems. These rankings have been widely cited in public debates about health care, particularly by those interested in reforming the U.S. health care system to resemble more closely those of other countries. Michael Moore, for instance, famously stated in his film SiCKO that the United States placed only 37th in the WHO report. CNN.com, in verifying Moore's claim, noted that France and Canada both placed in the top 10.
Those who cite the WHO rankings typically present them as an objective measure of the relative performance of national health care systems. They are not. The WHO rankings depend crucially on a number of underlying assumptions— some of them logically incoherent, some characterized by substantial uncertainty, and some rooted in ideological beliefs and values that not everyone shares.
The analysts behind the WHO rankings express the hope that their framework "will lay the basis for a shift from ideological discourse on health policy to a more empirical one." Yet the WHO rankings themselves have a strong ideological component. They include factors that are arguably unrelated to actual health performance, some of which could even improve in response to worse health performance. Even setting those concerns aside, the rankings are still highly sensitive to both measurement error and assumptions about the relative importance of the components. And finally, the WHO rankings reflect implicit value judgments and lifestyle preferences that differ among individuals and across countries.






steph
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No. 173
from nicurn001
Old Jul 05, 2009, 04:44 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by Spidey's mom View Post
As I mentioned regarding infant mortality stats - the way they get stats is questionable.
steph
I think we would both agree when it comes to statistics and sources to attack or defend a position caveat emptor applies . While I may think WHO is a fairly unimpechable source , as it has no vested interest in this subject . Glen Whitman and you obviously disagree .
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No. 174
Old Jul 06, 2009, 12:16 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Of course health insurance companies are wasting 1.4 million a day lobbying congress WITH OUR PREMIUM DOLLARS.
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No. 175
from K98
Old Jul 06, 2009, 06:02 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by HM2Viking View Post
Of course health insurance companies are wasting 1.4 million a day lobbying congress WITH OUR PREMIUM DOLLARS.
That should buy enough votes to save us from government-run health care .
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No. 176
from herring_RN
Old Jul 06, 2009, 06:29 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by K98 View Post
That should buy enough votes to save us from government-run health care .
I think that since I pay my insurance company they have a moral and ethical obligation to use the money to ensure I am not deneyed the healthcare I'm paying for.
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No. 177
from GCTMT
Old Jul 06, 2009, 11:54 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by K98 View Post
That should buy enough votes to save us from government-run health care .
So then, it's okay for lobbyist to influence our government? You must consider, one of the big platforms for Dems in Congress and Obama was health care reform. If they do not do something about it, then they are going to have a lot of problems with accountability.

Bottom line, Obama (and Many Dem Congressman ) ran and won on the health care reform wagon, if they don't deliver, there will be problems to say the least.
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No. 178
Old Jul 07, 2009, 12:03 AM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by GCTMT View Post
So then, it's okay for lobbyist to influence our government? You must consider, one of the big platforms for Dems in Congress and Obama was health care reform. If they do not do something about it, then they are going to have a lot of problems with accountability.

Bottom line, Obama (and Many Dem Congressman ) ran and won on the health care reform wagon, if they don't deliver, there will be problems to say the least.

Lobbyists are lining Obama's and Dem's coat pockets with . .. . influence. And Republicans too.

steph
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No. 179
from GCTMT
Old Jul 07, 2009, 12:10 AM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by Spidey's mom View Post
Lobbyists are lining Obama's and Dem's coat pockets with . .. . influence. And Republicans too.

steph

Yes, that's true. My questions to K98 was whether or not he thought that was a good thing. Apparently he does.

Does anyone else think lobbyists are good for our Democracy?
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