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I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.



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No. 110
Old Jun 27, 2009, 07:11 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
I watched it during class and just pulled out my notes "David Gratzer" and "The Cure" and I came home after class and looked him up and found out he was a conservative, just exactly as he came across on the interview. Wow, big whoop. Are conservatives not allowed to have opinions? John didn't hide anything.

Also, another woman he interviewed started "The Galen Institute" which was also in my notes and I went online and checked it out and it also has conservative ideas.

http://www.galen.org/

I also posted both these authors websites days ago on one of these socialized med threads.

It is not a secret where they are coming from.

Michael interviews people who are liberal . . . . John is rebutting him with conservative or libertarian thought.

As to WHO . . . .we learned in class that each country has different ways they interpret information and that is why the US doesn't stack up well in some areas because other countries leave things out or skew it. Like infant mortality.

Just an example we learned in class is that other countries don't try to save as many premies as we do. We count those babies. Other countries don't. In Cuba, if a baby dies within a few hours of being born, they don't count that baby as a live birth. There is NO universal standard way all countries share for counting infant mortality. Our professor showed that we are really 10th - not 29th . . and some of the reasons are we have a huge market for infertility and multiple births here in America and it is not that big elsewhere.

My stats prof taught us to look with a jaundiced eye and research stats.

step
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No. 111
from leslie :-D
Old Jun 27, 2009, 07:11 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by leslie :-D View Post
well, well, well....
very interesting about mr. stossel, viking.
pffffffft.

leslie
you know viking, this really bothers me about j. stossel.
i have always liked him and now, feel totally deluded.
i found another piece by mediamatters, that speaks to stossel's distorted and misleading views on public schools.
this is just so unacceptable on many levels, but mostly because he has received awards for his journalism...
and now, to find out that what he reports on, is slanted to reflect his ideals.

*sigh*...whatever.
sorry to go off topic.

leslie
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No. 112
Old Jun 27, 2009, 07:19 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Equating access to effective and affordable health care as welfare just doesn't connect logically.

Insurance by definition is a social product. We collectively pay into a risk pool to cover the risks that we cannot afford to absorb as individuals.
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No. 113
Old Jun 27, 2009, 07:23 PM
Updated Jun 27, 2009 at 07:46 PM by HM2VikingRN

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by leslie :-D View Post
you know viking, this really bothers me about j. stossel.
i have always liked him and now, feel totally deluded.
i found another piece by mediamatters, that speaks to stossel's distorted and misleading views on public schools.
this is just so unacceptable on many levels, but mostly because he has received awards for his journalism...
and now, to find out that what he reports on, is slanted to reflect his ideals.

*sigh*...whatever.
sorry to go off topic.

leslie
I think the lesson is that we have to be willing as individuals to evaluate data and evidence as we seek the path to better practices for ourselves and as a society. You weren't off topic as you pointed out the importance of thinking things through.

Steph,

I was pointing out that Mr. Stossel doesn't always hit the mark. Whether other countries count live births differently than we do does not erase that WHO and the Commonwealth fund have both given our health care system less than stellar grades for quality, affordability and accessibility.

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/me...TheRoad_02.gif





at http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Cont...imeliness.aspx
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No. 114
from leslie :-D
Old Jun 27, 2009, 07:39 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by HM2Viking View Post
I think the lesson is that we have to be willing as individuals to evaluate data and evidence as we seek the path to better practices for ourselves and as a society.
i understand that, and agree...
but he is supposed to be a consumer reporter!!
i would expect UNBIASED reporting, and not misrepresented data to reflect his agenda.
i soooo dislike deception, and he is deceitful.
i am reading some hair-raising stories about him.
i would now advise folks to read up on his proven and bogus antics he has pulled.
i will never believe him again.

leslie
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No. 115
from blue note
Old Jun 27, 2009, 07:44 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by HM2Viking View Post
I think that I would trust the work of the Commonwealth Fund for accurate information about UHC over the work of John Stossel.
How true. That John Stossel is a hack corporate shill is not news. Remember the 20/20 organic food story he did, which resulted in ABC reprimanding him for lying about tests conducted and he was forced to apologize on air? He has about as much credibility as his fellow pornstache club member, Geraldo.
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No. 116
Old Jun 27, 2009, 07:44 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Without personal credibility he has failed as a journalist. :<<
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No. 117
from blue note
Old Jun 27, 2009, 07:47 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by Spidey's mom View Post
It is not a secret where they are coming from.

Michael interviews people who are liberal . . . . John is rebutting him with conservative or libertarian thought.
It is no secret where Michael Moore is coming from. John Stossel pretends to be an impartial journalist when he is not.
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No. 118
Old Jun 27, 2009, 07:51 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Journalism ethics is not an oxymoron:

Seek Truth and Report It
Journalists should be honest, fair and courageous in gathering, reporting and interpreting information.

Journalists should:

— Test the accuracy of information from all sources and exercise care to avoid inadvertent error. Deliberate distortion is never permissible.
— Diligently seek out subjects of news stories to give them the opportunity to respond to allegations of wrongdoing.
— Identify sources whenever feasible. The public is entitled to as much information as possible on sources' reliability.
— Always question sources’ motives before promising anonymity. Clarify conditions attached to any promise made in exchange for information. Keep promises.
Make certain that headlines, news teases and promotional material, photos, video, audio, graphics, sound bites and quotations do not misrepresent. They should not oversimplify or highlight incidents out of context.
— Never distort the content of news photos or video. Image enhancement for technical clarity is always permissible. Label montages and photo illustrations.
— Avoid misleading re-enactments or staged news events. If re-enactment is necessary to tell a story, label it.
— Avoid undercover or other surreptitious methods of gathering information except when traditional open methods will not yield information vital to the public. Use of such methods should be explained as part of the story
— Never plagiarize.
— Tell the story of the diversity and magnitude of the human experience boldly, even when it is unpopular to do so.
— Examine their own cultural values and avoid imposing those values on others.
— Avoid stereotyping by race, gender, age, religion, ethnicity, geography, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance or social status.
— Support the open exchange of views, even views they find repugnant.
— Give voice to the voiceless; official and unofficial sources of information can be equally valid.
Distinguish between advocacy and news reporting. Analysis and commentary should be labeled and not misrepresent fact or context.
— Distinguish news from advertising and shun hybrids that blur the lines between the two.
— Recognize a special obligation to ensure that the public's business is conducted in the open and that government records are open to inspection.
at http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asp
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No. 119
from blue note
Old Jun 27, 2009, 07:58 PM

Default Re: I want to know what nurses think about socialized medicine.
Originally Posted by leslie :-D View Post
i have always liked him and now, feel totally deluded.
i found another piece by mediamatters, that speaks to stossel's distorted and misleading views on public schools.
this is just so unacceptable on many levels, but mostly because he has received awards for his journalism...
and now, to find out that what he reports on, is slanted to reflect his ideals.
He was asked, "If you believe that consumer reporting works, and is a better regulator than regulation or lawsuits, why did you stop doing it?"

His reply: "I got sick of it. I also now make so much money I just lost interest in saving a buck on a can of peas. Twenty years was enough. But mainly, I came to realize that the government was doing far more harm to people than business and I ought to be reporting on that. Nobody else was."

He also claimed that the Enron collapse proved that free market capitalism worked! "There are no big national scams except for Enron. Because markets figure it out. Not the government. Enron is an example of how well the market worked for people. Enron's stock came tumbling down. When the government fails, we give them more money. So, yes, there are Enrons, but the exception proves the rule."

A response in a LA paper pointed out that "Enron collapsed not due to a stock tumble but because government investigations disclosed accounting fraud, and Ken Lay's Ponzi scheme was exposed. Most investors lost their shirts, and thousands of Enron employees lost their jobs. That's "how well the market works for people"?" (source - and there's more there)
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