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I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....



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No. 50
Old Mar 25, 2009, 11:29 PM

Default Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....
Who says we wouldn't continue to pay for our health services if we had UHC? And who's talking about covering illegal immigrants? I specifically stated that American CITIZENS should be able to access basic health services. And please.......do the math, cutting out the middleman (the insurance industry) would get rid of a goodly amount of paperwork and expense that have NOTHING to do with medical care.

The ONLY advantage of the current system is that it provides multimillion dollar jobs for insurance company CEOs and middle-income wages for the bean counters. Lord forbid they have to go do something else......
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No. 51
Old Mar 25, 2009, 11:37 PM

Default Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....
Visitors to countries with socialized medicine are treated free of charge when they enter these countries legally. I don't know about illegally.
No they aren't. Of this, I have first hand experience. If this were true, then these systems would be crushed in a day by people conveniently being "on vacation" in a socialized medicine country when they suddenly needed healthcare.

A friend of my husband's required an emergency appendectomy while on sabbatical in Germany. He says the care he received was wonderful- and 100% free.
[/quote]

Forgive me if I find this highly unlikely. Here is an NPR article where an American had an MI in Germany while on vacation, and he is still paying the bills.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91963961
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No. 52
Old Mar 25, 2009, 11:39 PM

Default Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....
Honnête et Sérieux-

I totally disagree with your opinions, but I appreciate your contributions to the thread.
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No. 53
Old Mar 25, 2009, 11:44 PM

Default Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....
Originally Posted by VivaLasViejas View Post
And who's talking about covering illegal immigrants? I specifically stated that American CITIZENS should be able to access basic health services.
This person did;

Originally Posted by leadesign View Post
And what if we don't provide care for immigrants, how will you feel when you or your family contract one of their exotic diseases like that drug-resistant form of TB?
...and you did indirectly when you presented the inaccurate number referring to the alleged 45 million of uninsured people in the US.

And as it stands, all American Citizens ARE able to access "basic health services."

Who is not allowing them to access basic health services?
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No. 54
from herring_RN
Old Mar 25, 2009, 11:45 PM

Default Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....
Interested newcomers to ALLNURSES.COM may want to look at some of the 111 posts on this:

http://allnurses.com/social-health-c...re-220623.html
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No. 55
Old Mar 25, 2009, 11:45 PM

Default Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....
Originally Posted by Valerie Salva View Post
Honnête et Sérieux-

I totally disagree with your opinions, but I appreciate your contributions to the thread.
Thanks, but the majority of the information I presented is fact, little of it is opinion.

And I appreciate yours as well.
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No. 56
Old Mar 25, 2009, 11:58 PM

Default Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....
Who is not allowing them to access basic health services?[/quote]

I don't know about your part of the country, but where I live, you don't get in to see your PCP without either presenting an insurance card or paying the office visit fee (at my PCP, it's almost $200) up front.

Now, patients in my income bracket and above don't have much of an issue with this, but if you're poor and/or uninsured, your only options are the local free clinic (open one night a week) or the ER. So I guess in the broadest sense, there is universal access to health care..........but certainly not at a price many people can afford to pay.

At any rate, you are not going to change my mind, and I am not going to change yours. It's OK, there's plenty of room here for all opinions.
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No. 57
Old Mar 26, 2009, 12:02 AM

Default Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....
It makes a lot more sense to me for people to be able to go to a clinic and see a pcp and have that paid for- than to wait until they're really sick, go to ER, get admitted and it still ends up being paid for by us anyway.

Hey- "an ounce of prevention" is waaaaaaay more cost effective than a pound of cure.
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No. 58
Old Mar 26, 2009, 12:13 AM

Default Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....
Here's an example of an ounce of prevention...

Colorado is one state where illegal aliens cannot get outpt chronic dialysis paid for. So here's what these pts do- They clog up the ERs in Denver waiting for their K+ levels to become critically high so they can be admitted as inpts and receive "emergency" dialysis. Some of them even eat contraindicated high K+ foods on purpose so that their labs will sufficiently critical to allow them to be admitted and get dialysis.

If they could get outpt dialysis they could get their 3 x week tx, and be done with it. But- because of the way the system "works" they make themselves much sicker on purpose, and end up getting much more expensive inpt tx, and the ERs are filled w/ pts who are really there working the system so that they can get some semblence of their needed chronic tx.
Most of these pts play it so they do end up getting their dialysis twice a week- as inpts. In the meantime, all of their co-morbidies are getting worse due to the constant up and down of their labs, fluid overload, and lack of routine scheduled dialysis.

This is way more expensive and harmful than just giving them outpt dialysis in the first place.
How stupid is this system?
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No. 59
Old Mar 26, 2009, 01:04 AM

Default Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....
Originally Posted by Valerie Salva View Post
It makes a lot more sense to me for people to be able to go to a clinic and see a pcp and have that paid for- than to wait until they're really sick, go to ER, get admitted and it still ends up being paid for by us anyway.

Hey- "an ounce of prevention" is waaaaaaay more cost effective than a pound of cure.
Yes, well, that's logical to your way of thinking, but logic isn't part of the argument against UHC. Otherwise, who would fight to keep a system that costs more money, creates more work for nurses and doctors, and provides less care for patients?
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