I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

**VivaLasViejas** · Mar 25, 2009, 06:07 PM

Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

Originally Posted by Honnête et Sérieux

And the idea of implementing a UHC program because a few are underinsured will only lead to making us all underinsured.

A FEW "underinsured"?? What of the 47 million Americans without any insurance at all?

Again: Health insurance is NOT health care---that's where we "underinsured" come in, because even though we pay hundreds of dollars per month in premiums, there are bean-counters who have never been to medical or nursing school making life-or-death decisions...........and denying us procedures, drugs, medical equipment, and just about everything they CAN deny us.

I am completely serious about this: if we do not yank this evil weed out of our healthcare "system" by its roots and destroy it, no one but the independently wealthy will be able to access medical services in another 20 years. We nurses will be catering to a VIP population while we ourselves do without health care. Is that what the free-marketers want?

Me, I'd rather put that $500 bucks into a system that will at least cover part of my medications (one of which is $150 for a 30-day supply, which I'm ALSO paying for out-of-pocket).

I don't care if the rich want to buy extra health care---I think they should, if they want it, and it should be made available to them. But EVERY citizen should be able to access BASIC health services, as we do fire and police protection, schools, clean water, and other "government" services that we enjoy because we are citizens and we pay taxes to support them.

**Elvish** · Mar 25, 2009, 06:13 PM

Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

Moved into Social/Health Care Coverage Activism forum. Thanks.

*Valerie Salva* · Mar 25, 2009, 06:46 PM

Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

Originally Posted by d!gger

People in the USA rarely complain about their socialized police force, or socialized fire department, or socialized roads, or socialized garbage collection, or socialized water company, or socialized millitary, or...

dig
who's thanking gawd we didn't privatize social security a few years back.

AMEN AMEN!

I am horrified to think where social security would be now if we had privatized it, and invested the $$ in the stock mkt as Bush was pushing for!

And I think our "socialized" police, military, fire depts, etc. do a damn fine job!

leadesign · Mar 25, 2009, 06:59 PM

Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

Not to mention the fine job done by the US postal service!

r0b0tafflicti0n · Mar 25, 2009, 07:31 PM

Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

Originally Posted by LaughingStudent

As someone who has always lived in Canada, I think that some people don't realize some of the consequences of having a socialized healthcare system.

I am known to simultaneously praise and hate our system at the same time.

Some big problems off the top of my head.

1. The doctor shortage....We probably have the same proportion of people without GPs as you guys have without insurance. If there are no doctors in your area...you are out of luck so...

ETA: The doctor shortage is related to the non-competitive pay that socialized systems pay...

2. The ER is used and abused. There is no other choice. (See above)

3. Shortage of doctors and funding creates... wait lists. Even Canadians don't realize how dismal it is when it takes months to see a specialist, a year to have an MRI, months to start radiation of a diagnosed cancer... until they experience it themselves, and there is no exaggeration there (anyone can google wait list times in Canada for any of the above). We don't have a two tier system, so your option is to wait, or leave the country ($).

This is no where near an inclusive list.

Michael Moore is biased and shows one side of the story. Our system is just as weak and broken, it's just a different type of weak and broken. The grass is always greener...

I don't know if you realize this, but there is huge shortage of doctors (particularly primary care doctors, more particularly in inner city and rural areas) in the US as well. It's not unique to socialized medicine! It takes months to see a specialist here, and I live in a city with very good access to healthcare (you know, for people who can afford healthcare at all).

*LaughingStudent* · Mar 25, 2009, 08:01 PM

Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

I don't know if you realize this, but there is huge shortage of doctors (particularly primary care doctors, more particularly in inner city and rural areas) in the US as well. It's not unique to socialized medicine! It takes months to see a specialist here, and I live in a city with very good access to healthcare (you know, for people who can afford healthcare at all).

Thanks for pointing this out. I think I was just trying to say that socialized health care is far from perfect. Some people don't understand that, especially after watching the Michael Moore movie. Until a system is developed that fixes all the problems with socializing care, it really isn't a viable solution for anyone. The Canadian health system is broke and our taxes are very high. I hear comments in the media and news where some people think that free health care is the only way to go...

Essentially, it is too little spread too thin, everyone gets basic care but God forbid you need surgery or you have a mass in your abdomen, etc. You will wait... and sometimes too long. (I feel you get excellent top rate care here though... when you finally get it)

People who work hard, are not even given an option to pay extra to receive care quicker...It is taking equality to the outer maximum which begs the question, is it fair to make people suffer and die on wait lists simply to uphold the ideal of fair health for everyone? It's a fine line to walk to allow people who can afford it, pay for quicker service, because then socialized "health for everyone falls" apart.

It's hard.
I still love the ideal behind our system and honestly hope one day we can find the answers to make it work right.

Tessaprn · Mar 25, 2009, 08:06 PM

Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

This is a very hot and debatable topic. I suppose on paper universal health care sounds good. I do not wish to have my taxes increased. I believe if people would take responsibility for themselves instead letting others do it for them this problem could be improved. I believe health care is a right for every American citizen. If we stop supporting every other country first we would have the funds for our own health care.
Universal health care is not the answer. How are we nurses going to like having our salaries modified by the government. Does anyone think that doctors will take to spending years and a bit of money becoming physicians to have the government not pay them enough to pay off their student loans. England and France have spoken out about how bad universal health care is and they had it for years.
As for Michael Moore other than bashing the United States government and making money from his propaganda projects what has he offered to the country?

*Jolie* · Mar 25, 2009, 08:16 PM

Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

10 Surprising Facts about American Health Care

Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.

Fact No. 2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.

Fact No. 3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.

Fact No. 4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.

Fact No. 5: Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians.

Fact No. 6: Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the U.K.

Fact No. 7: People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed.

Fact No. 8: Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians.

Fact No. 9: Americans have much better access to important new technologies like medical imaging than patients in Canada or the U.K.

Fact No. 10: Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.

Conclusion. Despite serious challenges, such as escalating costs and the uninsured, the U.S. health care system compares favorably to those in other developed countries.

full article: http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649

*Valerie Salva* · Mar 25, 2009, 08:17 PM

Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

I know an RN who does not have health ins (agency nurse). She was bitten by a mosquito in 2007 and ended up with viral encephalopathy. She now owes close to $30,000. for the hospital bill. She has had her very modest house transferred to a relative's ownership so that she does not lose it.

I worked at a for-profit LTC a few years ago, which did not offer health ins to its' employees. A CNA needed an emergency appendectomy and ended us losing her apt and car because of the costs. She would have been out on the street, but the wound-care nurse and his wife took her in.

I was injured on-the-job at this facility. They refused to pay for my trip to the ER, and they got away with it. I contacted a lawyer and he told me I would win the case but added "Do you really think it would be worth it to pay me thousands of dollars to get your $500. ER bill paid?"

I paid the bill myself to protect my credit rating.

I currently have a co-worker who has had sudden, severe onset of Crohn's Disease. She needs to have part of her bowel removed, and will be out of work for some time. She is a single mother of two small children, and has used up all the FMLA she is eligable for. The company is in the process of transferring her to per diem status, and she will lose her health ins and her income.

I had a pt a couple of years ago, who reached the lifetime maximum on her husband's insurance benefits through his employer. This happily married couple got divorced so his wife could qualify for Medicaide. The couple and their son were devastated by this.

All of the above situations could have been averted if we had universal coverage in the US.

*Valerie Salva* · Mar 25, 2009, 08:20 PM

Re: I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

Originally Posted by Jolie

10 Surprising Facts about American Health Care

Fact No. 1: Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.

Fact No. 2: Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.

Fact No. 3: Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.

Fact No. 4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.

Fact No. 5: Lower income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians.

Fact No. 6: Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the U.K.

Fact No. 7: People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed.

Fact No. 8: Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians.

Fact No. 9: Americans have much better access to important new technologies like medical imaging than patients in Canada or the U.K.

Fact No. 10: Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.

Conclusion. Despite serious challenges, such as escalating costs and the uninsured, the U.S. health care system compares favorably to those in other developed countries.

full article: http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649

Sorry, but both Canadians and the French have longer life spans that Americans.

Don't forget- the US health care system ranks #37 out of all industrialized nations.

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I am watching Michael Moore's "Sicko" for the first time....

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