Why do nurses constantly say they don't hire ASN?

[dance4life]

OK this is funny because every Magnet hospital I go to someone who doesn't work in HR or is NOT a hiring Manager just has to say they don't hire Associate Degree nurses. I have been asked to be hired at some other Magnet hospitals. Reasons like this, bullying, bad staffing, etc. have made me just complete my assignment and go to the next one. I started liking working where I am now, at a Magnet hospital, probably one of the ones who started the trend. It came up as a discussion because my contract was extended after only two weeks of starting. Then a couple of nurses who were overhearing the conversation said I would never get hired due to my lame degree status. Le sigh... Some of the ASNs themselves. Just for the record. I am a 8 year experienced ASN with great references so it isn't like I am new at this kind of thing.

It just doesn't happen there, I have seen nurses do it on here to others. It is harder to get in I guess, but when you have experience it isn't so hard. At least for me. I am not sure about a New Grads, but hey what do I know. Maybe in the universe there is a New Grad ASN out there who did get hired with persistence at these Magnet hospitals! Especially, if they are enrolled or attending a BSN program.

Listen unless if you are not a hiring person don't say this. Why? I just don't understand it. Does it make you feel better? If someone has an Associate's Degree gets hire in a Magnet hospital, is willing to upgrade their education status, what they heck is it to you?

Just a rant I guess. Hopefully, this will be the last stop so I can continue on with my education. But, I won't ever be like, "They don't hire your kind here."

[serenity1]

My hospital just started this year only hiring BSN's. Not a hiring manager, or in HR, but we all received an email from the CNO regarding this change. That's how I know. We have a few employees about to graduate from an ADN program and they will not be offered a job because they are not BSN's. Even those of us with ADN's that want to transfer to another unit outside their current specialty--such as Nicu to ED--cannot do so because they are requiring a BSN. They are not making current ADN's get their BSN yet, but they really push it. We are not magnet yet, but in the next year will be applying for it. I could care less of someone has an ADN or BSN or whatever. I get no joy out of telling friends that are graduating with their ADN that my hospital will not hire them.

[trauma_lama, BSN]

I just graduated from an associate's program last weekend. About 70% of my 70+ graduate class already has offers/jobs lined up and about 80% of those are at magnet hospitals. I'd heard the whole "not hiring asn" thing too, but it doesn't seem to be true. At least not in my area.

Side note: I live in an area with 3 well-known major university nursing programs within an hour and a half radius of me, so there is definitely stiff BSN-ASN competition for new grad positions.

[stephanie.]

I just graduated from an associate's program last weekend. About 70% of my 70+ graduate class already has offers/jobs lined up and about 80% of those are at magnet hospitals. I'd heard the whole "not hiring asn" thing too, but it doesn't seem to be true. At least not in my area.

Side note: I live in an area with 3 well-known major university nursing programs within an hour and a half radius of me, so there is definitely stiff BSN-ASN competition for new grad positions.

What city are you in?

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

This is an epic battle....one that has raged for YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This will end no time soon, for the profession itself cannot decide on one educational level of entry.

diploma vs ADN vs BSN......is like hearing my kids cry...."MOM!!!! He/She hit me" in that distinctly whiny voice that makes my skin crawl and my hair stand on end and turns me into Linda Blair from The Exorcist.

My degree is better than your degree has raged on forever. It has raged as long as humans have this innate need to "be the best" or have the "best". This obsession with having the best IPhone, best car, best dress and making others feel bad by putting them down so they can feel better. I have a theory when this began but I am in no mood to start a battle. If it wasn't the degree it would be something else that made them somehow "better".....I grow weary of the incessant chatter of my stuff is better than your stuff.

Any study that has been done that the BSN is the better grad is performed by the very institution that supports the higher degree. I know the college I graduated from with a ASN no longer has the ASN program........it has been made into the BSN program with the "added college requirement/non nursing" curriculum required of all bachelors degree students. So....is the BSN better????

Right now amongst new grads...they is in some markets a preference towards the BSN grad with ANYONE with valued bedside experience >5 years being heavily sought. If experience you are a critical care/specialty RN with > 5 years experience but

Magnet facilities do have a higher percentage of BSN's and will usually hire the BSN candidate, to get that 80/20, so they don't have to pay for their present employees to get their degrees...which is an expensive proposition.

There are states (New York New Jersey) that are promoting this..... "BSN in 10"....... which means all nurse will have to obtain their BSN to continue to practice...which will not pass. The eradication of the ADN programs/schools which in and of itself will contribute to the poor economy and they will have to grandfather nurses with > 20 years be grandfathered AND it will require (little known federal fair wage and labor factoid) hospitals to pony up and pay for all these nurses to get their degrees.

So....the hospitals are getting around this by creating their own market and not incur the cost....first glutting the market with new nurses to cure a non existent healthcare crisis/shortage that was based on inflated numbers that mandatory staffing ratios would bring (which also never happened) to now only hiring a higher percentage of BSN grads. They are in the drivers seat which is exactly what they wanted all along for it has dropped salaries and benefits and increased nurse patient ratios which directly reflects money in their pockets...it's all a scam.

Staffing is worse now than at the "height of the Nursing shortage"

As an ex hiring manager.....there is a push for the BSN grad IF (and that is a big IF) you don't have experience. There are some areas of the country...depending on demographic...where the ADN is having a lot of trouble finding a position. But this is a poor economy that has 50% of all college grads to able to find gainful employment.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

This is an epic battle....one that has raged for YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This will end no time soon, for the profession itself cannot decide on one educational level of entry.

*** It's a lot worse than that since we haven't even decided that a single level is desirable. I for one am opposed to a single entry point and prefer to keep a variety of pather open.

diploma vs ADN vs BSN......is like hearing my kids cry...."MOM!!!! He/She hit me" in that distinctly whiny voice that makes my skin crawl and my hair stand on end and turns me into Linda Blair from The Exorcist.

*** That's a bummer for you. I rather enjoy the debate.

If experience you are a critical care/specialty RN with > 5 years experience but

*** Hey that's me! I agree. My friends with similar training / experience and I are heavily recruited by a variety of employers.

so they don't have to pay for their present employees to get their degrees...which is an expensive proposition.

*** My hospital is very generous with it's education assistance (not Magnet) but I have been told that the costs is minimal and written off anyway.

There are states (New York New Jersey) that are promoting this..... "BSN in 10"....... which means all nurse will have to obtain their BSN to continue to practice...which will not pass.

*** LOL Those silly people. Don't they know that ANY plan to get rid of the ADN must grandfather all the exsisting ADNs to have ANY chance of happening? One wonders why the ADN alone, of all the other health fields, would not be grandfathered in? It tells me that there is something low and mean motivating those "BSN in 10" people.

So....the hospitals are getting around this by creating their own market and not incur the cost....first glutting the market with new nurses to cure a non existent healthcare crisis/shortage that was based on inflated numbers that mandatory staffing ratios would bring (which also never happened) to now only hiring a higher percentage of BSN grads. They are in the drivers seat which is exactly what they wanted all along for it has dropped salaries and benefits and increased nurse patient ratios which directly reflects money in their pockets...it's all a scam.

*** You are so right, though I find your description overly generous. I call it deliberate and self serving false propaganda.

Staffing is worse now than at the "height of the Nursing shortage"

*** Yes it certainly is. However I don't agree there was ever a shortage. At least not since the mid 90's when I became a nurse and started paying attention. There WAS a period when there where many, many RN jobs availabel but I do not see that as evidence of a shortage of nurses. I do see it as evidence that when the economy is booming and RNs have other options for employment in better working enviroments than what was being offered by hospitals and LTCs they will take them.

[cardiacrocks, BSN, RN]

Here we go again, this conversation is getting old. I could care less what degree or diploma someone has. What I care about is are they a team player and are they doing their job. Bottom line is we are all nurses, we do our jobs to take care of patients. It is completely irrelevant to me where you went to school, how much money you make or what degree you possess. Let's stop all this crap. Can't we all just get along.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Here we go again, this conversation is getting old. I could care less what degree or diploma someone has. What I care about is are they a team player and are they doing their job. Bottom line is we are all nurses, we do our jobs to take care of patients. It is completely irrelevant to me where you went to school, how much money you make or what degree you possess. Let's stop all this crap. Can't we all just get along.

*** Unlikely when one group of nurses is trying to do away with another group.

[Susie2310]

Here we go again, this conversation is getting old. I could care less what degree or diploma someone has. What I care about is are they a team player and are they doing their job. Bottom line is we are all nurses, we do our jobs to take care of patients. It is completely irrelevant to me where you went to school, how much money you make or what degree you possess. Let's stop all this crap. Can't we all just get along.

This conversation is about much more than just "My degree is better than yours." Certain people have a vested interest in promoting as an established fact the notion that nursing care provided by BSN prepared nurses results in better patient outcomes versus nursing care provided by ADN prepared nurses. It is important that this approach is challenged.

[mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN]

Hired at a nationally ranked top 10 magnet. With an ADN. New grad program. About 1/3 in program are ADNs.

[brandy1017, ASN, RN]

This is an epic battle....one that has raged for YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This will end no time soon, for the profession itself cannot decide on one educational level of entry.

diploma vs ADN vs BSN......is like hearing my kids cry...."MOM!!!! He/She hit me" in that distinctly whiny voice that makes my skin crawl and my hair stand on end and turns me into Linda Blair from The Exorcist.

My degree is better than your degree has raged on forever. It has raged as long as humans have this innate need to "be the best" or have the "best". This obsession with having the best IPhone, best car, best dress and making others feel bad by putting them down so they can feel better. I have a theory when this began but I am in no mood to start a battle. If it wasn't the degree it would be something else that made them somehow "better".....I grow weary of the incessant chatter of my stuff is better than your stuff.

Any study that has been done that the BSN is the better grad is performed by the very institution that supports the higher degree. I know the college I graduated from with a ASN no longer has the ASN program........it has been made into the BSN program with the "added college requirement/non nursing" curriculum required of all bachelors degree students. So....is the BSN better????

Right now amongst new grads...they is in some markets a preference towards the BSN grad with ANYONE with valued bedside experience >5 years being heavily sought. If experience you are a critical care/specialty RN with > 5 years experience but

Magnet facilities do have a higher percentage of BSN's and will usually hire the BSN candidate, to get that 80/20, so they don't have to pay for their present employees to get their degrees...which is an expensive proposition.

There are states (New York New Jersey) that are promoting this..... "BSN in 10"....... which means all nurse will have to obtain their BSN to continue to practice...which will not pass. The eradication of the ADN programs/schools which in and of itself will contribute to the poor economy and they will have to grandfather nurses with > 20 years be grandfathered AND it will require (little known federal fair wage and labor factoid) hospitals to pony up and pay for all these nurses to get their degrees.

So....the hospitals are getting around this by creating their own market and not incur the cost....first glutting the market with new nurses to cure a non existent healthcare crisis/shortage that was based on inflated numbers that mandatory staffing ratios would bring (which also never happened) to now only hiring a higher percentage of BSN grads. They are in the drivers seat which is exactly what they wanted all along for it has dropped salaries and benefits and increased nurse patient ratios which directly reflects money in their pockets...it's all a scam.

Staffing is worse now than at the "height of the Nursing shortage"

As an ex hiring manager.....there is a push for the BSN grad IF (and that is a big IF) you don't have experience. There are some areas of the country...depending on demographic...where the ADN is having a lot of trouble finding a position. But this is a poor economy that has 50% of all college grads to able to find gainful employment.

Where does it say that hospitals will be required to pay for all tuition if their current RN's are mandated to get a BSN by 2020? Would like to know more? I sure don't want to go back to school and take out student loan debt when I'm near retirement!

[nurseladybug12]

I have a ADN and I work in a magnet hospital. I dont think having BSN makes a person a better nurse. I work with BSNs fresh out of college who have never held a job before because they didn't have to, some of them have poor customer service skills and poor time management skills...which is something you cant learn in school. More education and more experience does not lead to better pt outcomes, lower nurse to patient ratios do.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Where does it say that hospitals will be required to pay for all tuition if their current RN's are mandated to get a BSN by 2020? Would like to know more? I sure don't want to go back to school and take out student loan debt when I'm near retirement!

*** It's the way these things work. If it is require training or education for your job either they have to hire those with the education they want, or pay for them to get it. It's like ACLS. If your hospital requires ACLS for your position they have to not only provide you with the training, but pay you to do it.