What's REALLY with the hospitals using Magnet as a cover for wanting BSN only nurses? - page 11

by foreverLaur

30,660 Views | 175 Comments

I'm in an associate degree RN program. I have a previous BA in Psychology and just finished up my last two classes online to also get my BS in Business Administration. I have worked for over a year as a PCA at a local hospital... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from GM2RN
    Ok, but regardless of the reason, which presumably is to get a higher quality nurse, don't you think that a higher gpa requirement is better than a lower one?
    Quite simply answered, oh I don't know about that.

    Requiring a new graduate with a 3.0 or higher GPA *may* produce higher quality (new) nurses, but so far from what one has seen/heard the jury is still out on that subject.

    Again as stated previously 3.0 GPA has been the de facto standard for entry and graduating from NYC area programs for almost a decade now. Quite simply without such a high average one's chances of getting and staying in a RN program around here are low to nil. Yet somehow this has not automatically lead to any major overall increase in the quality of new graduates.
  2. 0
    [QUOTE=DoGoodThenGo;6749701]Meant what one said. Had never seen nor heard of a hospital putting a GPA floor under the sort of new grads they preferred before. Here in the NYC area many programs both private and public have been recently upping the required GPA for entry and or retention to a minimum of 3.0, however it is by no means universal. For instance the College of Staten Island moved the minimum from 2.5 that has been around for decades to 3.0 starting with Fall of 2012. http://www.csi.cuny.edu/nursing/NRselect.pdf Though it may not apply to all CUNY colleges/universities a "B" at Hunter College is 3.0 and a B- is 2.7. OASIS: Grading System (GPA), Office of the Registrar, Hunter CollegeOf course it has been true for a *very* long time that students with
  3. 0
    Okay what bothers me about Magnet is their philosophy "Nursing excellence" are they saying ADN can't be an excellent nurse because they don't spend $$$$ on increasing their education. Because that is how I am seeing it thrown out. Then it makes me wander how much Universities invested in the making of this award status to boost their admissions?
  4. 5
    The Aiken study that nursing academic elitists love to trumpet as the reason why we need the BSN push has already been shown to be biased and flawed in many ways. I invite all nurses to read the critiques of the study. It is full of self-affirming validity. Why would anyone who calls themselves a professional advocate changing nursing policy based on just one study? So why the sudden push for the BSN? This may give us clue: (200 college and university campuses have closed during the last 10 years due to decreasing enrollments as baby boomers aged" (Nursing Spectrum, Jan. 9, 2012). Carefully research the people driving the BSN push and you'll find that every one of them is in some way affiliated with a four year college or university. I also researched the IOM and found that just about every one of its officials and representatives are also affiliated with four year schools. In other words, four year colleges need revenue and those in academia want to stay employed. Since there are more nurses than any other healthcare professional, they feel requiring nurses to run back to school is the best way to get it. Once they have all nurses running back for BSNs, then they'll say you need a Master's Degree to give the profession the respect it deserves. After that it will be a doctorate. If you buy into this scheme, they'll have you running back to school and in debt for the rest of your life.

    Many hospitals in the area are telling their most experienced nurses; many who are in their 40s and 50s who have over 20+ yrs of experience along with specialty certifications that demonstrate proficiency and excellence in areas such as trauma and ICU and who also have called upon to mentor new nurses, that they must now earn BSNs. Many of these nurses realize that to go into debt for $20,000-$30,000 at that time in their lives for something that has absolutely no bearing on patient care is ludicrous. Many know that the loan may not be paid off by the time they are ready to retire and have said they would leave the profession if they are forced to do this. These are the most experienced nurses that you and I would want to have taking care of us or our loved ones should hospital treatment be necessary. Losing these nurses would be a detriment to the profession and a danger to general public because the risk of being cared for by inexperienced nurses will be greatly increased.

    Bottom line: If the BSN push is not about money, why won't they let nurses earn BSNs the same way they earn CEUs such as studying articles in Nursing Spectrum and Advance then taking the competency tests. Reason is the four year colleges and universities won't make money that way.

    And as far as Magnet Status goes:“Nothing more than a money making scheme for the ANA, hospitals pay the ANA thousands of dollars for a fake seal of approval.” (Jan.16, 2009, Nursingjobs.org.).

    The elitists driving the BSN and Magnet Status push live in the fantasy world of academia and think we nurses are too stupid and naive to see through their game. Let's let them know we're not by not not buying into their scam and by not supporting the ANA or your state's nurse's association until they stop supporting the hiring of only BSNs in hospitals. Also, an RN with a Bachelor's Degree in another area should be given the same hiring consideration as someone with a BSN. To not do so would be the most narrow-minded, short-sighted thing I've ever heard of.

    Peter Lee, B.A., RN
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    Quote from avengingspirit1
    So why the sudden push for the BSN? This may give us clue200 college and university campuses have closed during the last 10 years due to decreasing enrollments as baby boomers aged" (Nursing Spectrum, Jan. 9, 2012).
    You are implying that they are pushing for BSNs to keep schools from closing. That is misleading AND illogical. 200 have closed, but many have opened and enrollment is way up over that time peripod. "Between 2000 and 2010, [college] enrollment increased 37 percent, from 15.3 million to 21.0 million." (Fast Facts)

    I also researched the IOM and found that just about every one of its officials and representatives are also affiliated with four year schools.
    So you are saying... that researchers... are affiliated... with research institutions... STOP THE PRESSES! IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

    Many hospitals in the area are telling their most experienced nurses ... that they must now earn BSNs. Many of these nurses realize that to go into debt for $20,000-$30,000
    Anyone who pays that for a BSN completion is not shopping around, plus they are probably eligable for aid assuming the employer isn't paying for their degree anyway.

    Also, an RN with a Bachelor's Degree in another area should be given the same hiring consideration as someone with a BSN. To not do so would be the most narrow-minded, short-sighted thing I've ever heard of.

    Peter Lee, B.A., RN
    THis is a truly objective, unemotional statement from an unbiased authority with no dog in the fight.
    TiffyRN, Miiki SN, llg, and 1 other like this.
  6. 3
    Quote from SummitAP
    So you are saying... that researchers... are affiliated... with research institutions... STOP THE PRESSES! IT'S A CONSPIRACY!
    They're actually most likely affiliated with major universities that offer WELL BEYOND the basic 4 year degrees and that offer masters and doctoral degrees. Small colleges that focus on undergraduate degrees only usually don't have major research centers, as research often relies on graduate student assistants.
    redhead_NURSE98!, Esme12, and SummitRN like this.
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    I'm not implying anything. I'm stating that higher education is big business and is rapidly becoming a big racket with all the degree inflation that goes on. All nurses whether they graduate from a Diploma, Associates or Bachelor’s Program must complete the same coursework from an accredited program in order to sit for the state licensing exam. Why does it bother these so-called nursing leaders so much that many nurses graduated from Diploma and Associates programs? And why should they care as long as a nurse is skilled, competent and maintains their license by completing the state mandated continuing education units?

    Just about all of the so-called experts who support requiring nurses to obtain a BSN are backed by the AACN (American Association of Colleges of Nursing); an organization which is committed to BSN entry into nursing or in some other way are affiliated with a four year college or university.


    Obviously, there must be something going on with nursing school enrollments at 4 year schools. If enrollments drop, it means less funding, less staff needed and academic elitists who haven't touched a real patient in 15 yrs or more are probably worried that they may actually have to go back into the real working world.

    So once again, I'll ask; If it's not about money, why won't they let nurses earn BSNs the same way they earn CEUs such as studying articles in Nursing Spectrum and Advance then taking the competency tests.

    I've read your other posts and know you must work in academia. So please be honest with the readers and tell us what 4 year college or university you work with.
    Szasz_is_Right, brandy1017, and Esme12 like this.
  8. 1
    "Obviously, there must be something going on with nursing school enrollments at 4 year schools."

    Obviously based on objective data or obviously based on your deductions? Because that's not an "obvious" conclusion for me based on both personal experience (getting in to nursing school was COMPETITIVE and there was no shortage of applicants for schools I applied to to choose from) and looking at enrollment trend data like what SummitAP posted.
    Last edit by hiddencatRN on Feb 14, '13 : Reason: paragraphs
    SummitRN likes this.
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    As one nurse who wishes to remain anonymous put it; “Nothing more than a money making scheme for the ANA, hospitals pay the ANA thousands of dollars for a fake seal of approval.” (Jan.16, 2009, Nursingjobs.org.). When the evaluators come, many nurses have said that hospitals make sure only to have nurses working that fit a certain profile. They have also said that patient to nurse ratios are lowered and once evaluators leave and Magnet Status is achieved, hospitals revert back to unsafe staffing and excluding nurses from decision making. While some hospitals do try to provide superior patient care, each should be judged by its own merits and not a paid-for recognition. For the most part, many nurses believe Magnet Status is meant to manipulate the uninformed general public into feeling better about one hospital versus another and that no better care is provided than at any other hospital. What’s more is that To attain Magnet Status, Many hospitals say they will only hire BSN nurses. Hospitals then try to sell the general public on the idea that they will receive better care at that hospital much like the “New and Improved” marketing schemes of the 70s. Another big reason for the BSN and Magnet Status push: Hospitals receive a large stipend from the federal government for reaching and maintaining magnet status (Nicmousseau,Nurse.com, Dec. 12, 2012).

    Bottom line: Magnet Status is merely a marketing tactic. Hospital management and so-called nursing leaders know this. They also know most nurses know it. They're just hoping they won't talk about it.
    Szasz_is_Right, RoseRyan, and Esme12 like this.
  10. 1
    Just wanted to say not every BSN program is locked in an arms race to increase enrollments and or graduates.

    The famed Hunter-Bellevue program here in NYC has revised both their undergrad and ABSN programs effectively reducing class size in half. IIRC where once there was 100 slots for each for a total of 200 there will be as of this fall only 50 undergrad and 50 ABSN slots for a total of 100.

    IMHO this and other changes shows a nursing program that is listening to what the profession/healthcare market is telling them; that is the focus is not on quantity of grads but quality. They could have easily gone the other way and made the case in light of the "nursing shortage" and other factors slots should have been increased. But what is the good of that when new grads of all stripes are having a hard time finding work, a trend not likely to ease that much over the coming years as hospitals reorganise their nursing services.
    hiddencatRN likes this.


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