SICK of BSN Pedestal

[DUDERNGUY]

Get off the Pedestal with the whole BSN vs ADN thing. A fact this is overlooked is that ADN does the same job as BSN and passes the NCLEX. Everyone then cried ADN is uneducated blah blah. WHY dont we look at the 4 year universities instead? Why doesnt the BSN itself advance? Because taking an extra gym glass doesnt deserve it. Look at all the worthless pre reqs that you BSN's are taking over the ADN. It isnt making you a better nurse its all about the money the school systems are a business. We need to change the education system. SWAP out that spanish you are going to forget the second after the test and take some critical thinking. Be gone with that Open elective to take baking class and replace it with PSYCH. The problem is the ADN is a efficient degree with time/pre-reqs and the BSN is created to give the "big man" money. Sorry if you wasted 100k in debt.

why are hospitals going magnet? because the universities are lobbiest to the hospitals. Universites need there money and they dont like ADNs getting the jobs BSNs are getting for a fraction of the cost. Universities have paid, persuaded, and convinced hospitals to go magnet and it is not because 4 year nurses are better.

IF universities ever decide to stop the worthless pre reqs and uni requirements then maybe one day a BSN nurse would have a true advantage.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

Someone sounds a little bitter. Or jealous. Or both.The fact is this: If nurses want to advance their profession and command higher salaries/wages, then it is only fair that the requirements and standards are set higher and that the qualifications are more standardized across the board. Most professions outside of trade school require a four-year degree. Nursing is one of those few fields where only a junior college degree/diploma is required to enter the field. Why is that? Nurses can't complain about not being treated like professionals if the degree itself doesn't require a BSN.

So who's stopping you from getting more education and advancing your

career? If you're a BSN taking a job as a floor nurse that can be filled by a LPN or ADN doesn't that mean that *you* are the one choosing to work below the full scope of your education?

Maybe I should go work apply for a job in a doctors office and then complain about how all the MAs around me doing the same job I am are "insulting" to my profession and demand that MA programs be discontinued. Never mind that these people have been doing this job for decades and trained me how to do mine....

If you take a position you *know* is routinely filled by people with lower education than you, doesn't that say more about *you* than it does about everyone else?

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

So who's stopping you from getting more education and advancing your

career? If you're a BSN taking a job as a floor nurse that can be filled by a LPN or ADN doesn't that mean that *you* are the one choosing to work below the full scope of your education?

Maybe I should go work apply for a job in a doctors office and then complain about how all the MAs around me doing the same job I am are "insulting" to my profession and demand that MA programs be discontinued. Never mind that these people have been doing this job for decades and trained me how to do mine....

If you take a position you *know* is routinely filled by people with lower education than you, doesn't that say more about *you* than it does about everyone else?

No. It says more about the field than anything else. And there are things that RNs can do that an LPN can't, so I'm not sure why you are bringing LPNs into this....

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

No. It says more about the field than anything else. And there are things that RNs can do that an LPN can't, so I'm not sure why you are bringing LPNs into this....

Because many RNs take jobs that can be (and are) filled by LPNs. And then they imply that the fact that there are LPNs and RNs doing the same job indicates that the LPNs are working beyond their scope. No.... it implies that the RNs are working under it.

[kalevra, BSN, RN]

You realize that that the Nursing Profession itself is the one to blame for this "pedestal".

If they set one standard that everyone adhered to, then there would be NO PEDESTAL. Instead we have hen pecking about who is better. This infighting only makes us look like childish. Get a hold of yourselves, work as a team, set the standard, enforce the standard and move on with bigger and better things.

This is embarrassing.

[cabogirl]

You realize that that the Nursing Profession itself is the one to blame for this "pedestal".

If they set one standard that everyone adhered to, then there would be NO PEDESTAL. Instead we have hen pecking about who is better. This infighting only makes us look like childish. Get a hold of yourselves, work as a team, set the standard, enforce the standard and move on with bigger and better things.

This is embarrassing.

^^^^^^ TRUTH!!

[sapphire18]

"Future RNs should have to obtain a BSN" does NOT equal "Current ADN RNs are incompetent." Most professions change educational standards. Changing the standards does not mean that those who met the current standards are incompetent. It's just saying, "Let's up those standards for the future."

Could not have said it better myself, wooh.

[happyinillinois]

I was an ADN with a previous B.A. That B.A. was a walk in the park compared t my ADN nursing school, and was from our state's Premier public university! Anyway, with all the BSN hoopla going around, I went through WGU and did the RN-BSN program for $4750.00. Do I feel an smarter? No. Does it help my practice working in ER? No. No more clinical hours, no disease processes you didn't cover. It is leadership, theory and public health. But at least now I am a BSN.

[Vines812]

Could not have said it better myself, wooh.

I studied this in my RN-BSN program. If you read up on the Institute of Medicine's report of the Future of Healthcare, there are certain goals that have been set (along with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation) to change the face of nursing to be prepared to beter serve the needs of the public in the future. One of the 'goals' or 'recommendations' is that a certain amount (I believe 80%..correct me if I'm wrong it's been awhile since I read the report..) of RNs have BSNs by 2020 (again, if I have the year wrong, correct me.) Other goals in this report include that nurses are actively involved in decision making when it comes to healthcare policies, as well as are able to practice to their full extent of training and knowledge. With this said, this is why they are pushing for more nurses to have higher education- to be forefront leaders in healthcare in the future.

I think we have to remember the reason why there are ADN programs. ADN programs were created when there was a severe shortage of nurses in the US. This was made so that the shortage could be easily "fixed" and students could get in and out of school as quickly as possible to work. Now with the over flow of new grads and economy limiting available job opportuntiies, hospitals can be picky.

I think now that there is a preference for BSNs at most hospitals, and the "future of healthcare" is pushing for higher education - one major FLAW in the world of nursing is that there is no streamlined education to become an RN. With LVN-RN, ADN, ADN-BSN, ETC...it was helpful in the past, but now maybe they should fix that. If they are going to require nurses to have BSNS in the future, and if htey are NOT going to hire ADNS, then nursing needs to provide ADN nurses with enough RN-BSN programs that are affordable and available OR provide more BSN programs as a whole.

I am currently in an RN-BSN program. From what I've learned during my program search, they are just as impacted as other nursing programs. Most of the nurses in the US are ADN nurses..we need more programs/space available/financial support..if there's going to be this expectation to return to school. Programs are limited and financial resources to return to school.

I think ADN programs should inform their students of all this info...so they know where they will stand ahead of time after graduation.

[NurseGuyBri]

I'm sorry, but I don't have a BSN. I have a diploma RN. I have a BA Social Science. The prerequisites, for me, were ensuring I knew how to write like a professional, read like a professional, be inquisitive, truly critically think, and other real-world necessary knowledge. I'm not saying that just because you don't have a bachelors that you cannot do the same, that depends on the person. Isn't a bit harsh, though, to rant about the prerequisites and classes if you haven't taken them? I am a better nurse for it, trust me, read my notes. Again, do not take this wrong- it does NOT in any way make me BETTER than ANYONE or ANYTHING. It's just the way it happens, and everyone should be allowed their own way.

I just dont think you can really pick on BSN's and their "stupid pre-reqs" if your complaint is that they pick on Diplomas/ADN's....

[BeentheredonethatRN]

So far , I have been taking classes for my BSN and now have about three classes left. On that note, none of the classes have made me a better nurse-just going through the motions. Also, nurses that are able- couldn't ask for a better time to go back to school- why ? Well, schools are following the business model- " Give the people what they want and they will come ." With the help of Artifical Intelligence software, editors, English major friends , Google, ... none of it is hard. Matter of fact, I am just writting this post without any help -but if I did use my resources -Trust me , this post would sound like something from Duke,Yale, lol. So far , no grades less than A's.

Lastly, school is so easy most of my friends are going for their MSNs. Really ! So many of these schools just want to see you successful ,and make a few dollars along the way. Look at all the advertisements. Trust me , the day is going to come that entry level into a Magnet hospital is going to be MSN. For a few dollars you can do anything. Checkout this article:How the American Who Outsourced His Own Job to China So He Could Watch Cat Videos Could Have Gotten Away With It, According to the Man Who Caught Him

[SRNA4U, BSN, DNP, RN, CRNA]

As a profession, a bachelors degree has always been the foundation for a discipline to be called a profession. I went through an ADN program and our first day of class. we were told ADNs are considered "technical nurses" and the BSN is the "professional" nurse. ADNs were produced back in the day strictly for bedside nursing while the BSN prepared nurse did all of the health teaching, care plans, etc. I finished my ADN in 1998 and my BSN in 2000 and it's true that the BSN makes you a well rounded person as compared to other programs that offer BS/BA degrees. In our profession, BSN nurses receive nursing research, leadership/management training, and communithy health, which ADN nurses do not receive. ADN education is geared towards immediate clinical application whereas BSN nurses are prepared for more of a generalist role.

[nursel56]

I studied this in my RN-BSN program. If you read up on the Institute of Medicine's report of the Future of Healthcare, there are certain goals that have been set (along with the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation) to change the face of nursing to be prepared to beter serve the needs of the public in the future. One of the 'goals' or 'recommendations' is that a certain amount (I believe 80%..correct me if I'm wrong it's been awhile since I read the report..) of RNs have BSNs by 2020 (again, if I have the year wrong, correct me.) Other goals in this report include that nurses are actively involved in decision making when it comes to healthcare policies, as well as are able to practice to their full extent of training and knowledge. With this said, this is why they are pushing for more nurses to have higher education- to be forefront leaders in healthcare in the future.

That document is a great reference source, but their recommendations were a foregone conclusion if you look at who the members of the Committee were and their affiliations to organizations whose stated goal is to require a BSN for entry to practice as an RN.

What it does in my mind is answer the questions people ask about the "why" and the "what" do BSN programs coursework offer that makes them eligible to be called professional nurses while they believe the ADN and diploma nurses were not. People might take issue with the position that a formal bachelor's program is the only place to learn about what they feel differently educated RNs lack, but they are outlined in this excerpt from the first page (bolding added):

The ways in which nurses were educated during the 20th century are no longer adequate for dealing with the realities of health care in the 21st century. As patient needs and care environments have become more complex, nurses need to attain requisite competencies to deliver high-quality care. These competencies include leadership, health policy, system improvement, research and evidence-based practice, and teamwork and collaboration, as well as competency in specific content areas such as community and public health and geriatrics. Nurses also are being called upon to fill expanding roles and to master technological tools and information management systems while collaborating and coordinating care across teams of health professionals.

I don't think those qualify as fluff, though I don't see ADN nurses needing a BSN nurse to explain technological tools to them very often. To their credit they do talk about the "seamless track" of nursing education, but they just don't elaborate with too much detail or are they exploring concrete ways to help current community college based nursing programs transition to BSN programs. I really wish they would, but right now they are more interested in funding current BSN nurses to go back for advanced-practice degrees.

Here's a link to the The Future of Nursing: Focus on Education section of the IOM report in case anyone wants to read the whole thing.