SICK of BSN Pedestal

[DUDERNGUY]

Get off the Pedestal with the whole BSN vs ADN thing. A fact this is overlooked is that ADN does the same job as BSN and passes the NCLEX. Everyone then cried ADN is uneducated blah blah. WHY dont we look at the 4 year universities instead? Why doesnt the BSN itself advance? Because taking an extra gym glass doesnt deserve it. Look at all the worthless pre reqs that you BSN's are taking over the ADN. It isnt making you a better nurse its all about the money the school systems are a business. We need to change the education system. SWAP out that spanish you are going to forget the second after the test and take some critical thinking. Be gone with that Open elective to take baking class and replace it with PSYCH. The problem is the ADN is a efficient degree with time/pre-reqs and the BSN is created to give the "big man" money. Sorry if you wasted 100k in debt.

why are hospitals going magnet? because the universities are lobbiest to the hospitals. Universites need there money and they dont like ADNs getting the jobs BSNs are getting for a fraction of the cost. Universities have paid, persuaded, and convinced hospitals to go magnet and it is not because 4 year nurses are better.

IF universities ever decide to stop the worthless pre reqs and uni requirements then maybe one day a BSN nurse would have a true advantage.

[rngolfer53]

@DUDERNGUY

It sounds to me like you're jealous. The fact that us BSN graduates are getting ahead over an ADN such as yourself and the fact that you are forced to have to go back to school and spend more money (you already spent money to go to an ADN program and now you have to start from scratch to get a BSN, wasting not only your money but time too). $100,000 in debt? Nope, no loans and no debt here thanks to scholarships and government aid. :)

This post is riddled with assumptions which would seem to be an error in critical thinking by the self-congratulatory holder of a BSN.

While the OP assuredly didn't compose his post with "How To Win Friends and Influence People" next to his keyboard, replying in an equally offensive way, as Frank RN has, smacks of the schoolyard rather than a professional.

[wooh, BSN, RN]

One thing I hear over and over on these boards are the "BSN only" crowd saying that the work with wonderful ADN/diploma RNs who are wonderful nurses who are great at their job. In the same post they go on to say that all RNs should be BSNs and only BSNs can provide a safe level of care. Doesn't anyone see the HUGE logic lapse there?

"Future RNs should have to obtain a BSN" does NOT equal "Current ADN RNs are incompetent." Most professions change educational standards. Changing the standards does not mean that those who met the current standards are incompetent. It's just saying, "Let's up those standards for the future."

[ChaseZ]

But I like my pedestal....seriously. I do not think ADNs are any less competent than BSNs or vice versa but in today's economy and job market the BSN has a clear advantage (For new grads). My BSN classmates and I all had job offers prior to graduating whereas many of my ADN friends are 6 months post graduation and still unemployed, many without even getting interviews. The ones that do have jobs are at LTC or nursing homes. It just so happens these same friends are the ones who like to complain about BSNs claiming we are arrogant and don't deserve a job over them just because we took a few extra "worthless" classes. They have just as much of a chip in their shoulder as "BSNs on their pedestal". Should I stoop to the OP's level and start a thread "ADNs grab a step stool and step your game up". This hate fest is crazy.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

But I like my pedestal....seriously. I do not think ADNs are any less competent than BSNs or vice versa but in today's economy and job market the BSN has a clear advantage (For new grads). My BSN classmates and I all had job offers prior to graduating whereas many of my ADN friends are 6 months post graduation and still unemployed many without even getting interviews. The ones that do have jobs are at LTC or nursing homes. It just so happens these same friends are the ones who like to complain about BSNs claiming we are arrogant and don't deserve a job over them just because we took a few extra "worthless" classes. They have just as much of a chip in their shoulder as "BSNs on their pedestal". Should I stoop to the OP's level and start a thread "ADNs grab a step stool and step your game up". This hate fest is crazy.[/quote']

^^^Agree!!! Enough of the LPN vs RN vs BSN...this is a profession, not a 3-way wrestling match.

PS...a lot us BSNs were able to be on this pedestal by hardworking ADNs (as well as LPNs) through those programs or by co-workers...at lot of us enjoy the skill mix that our profession entails....as for the future...if we are going in the direction of BSN so be it for the better (including courses like philosophy, ethics, hospital economics, health policy as core courses along with statistics, math, and foreign language or culture- based classes, is NOT necessarily a BAD thing...)

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

"Future RNs should have to obtain a BSN" does NOT equal "Current ADN RNs are incompetent." Most professions change educational standards. Changing the standards does not mean that those who met the current standards are incompetent. It's just saying, "Let's up those standards for the future."

^^^Agree.

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

As BrandonLPN pointed out in an earlier post, then perhaps there should be a different "level" of nursing for each holder of each level of nursing each having different levels of care one can provide. And there should be then a different level of questions on the NCLEX.

Because when all is said and done, everyone--Diploma, ADN's and BSN's take the same exact NCLEX. And every one is at the same new grad clinical level when starting out. Because a BSN would be more learned in leadership and theory (and as an LPN I had to take a class or 2 in leadership as well as about 952 care plans we had to write ourselves....ah, the good ole days LOL) ANYWHO, just because one is learned in those things doesn't mean they can be put into practice. And depending on a new grad's situation, it may be that one is at a nursing home or skilled care and your supervisor is an LPN. One can have as much education as a university can give them and making it work in real life doesn't always transfer well. And one can be the best leader in the business, however, if one doesn't have a grasp of clinical compentencies, then it is difficult at best to direct and supervise a group of nurses when one has not a clue what exactly they are doing clincally. Theory is awesome, but it is nice to know the end result....

[RNpearls1908]

Yea I was going to post on this but then I realized how deamining this topic is and not to mention the responses ie. Frank rn or whatever Mr.high horse name is lol

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

Yea I was going to post on this but then I realized how deamining this topic is and not to mention the responses ie. Frank rn or whatever Mr.high horse name is lol

Lol...I bit...only because I was a LPN who transitioned into a BSN, and I actually do see the value in my education, through being exposed to write a research proposal in my Research class (THAT required knowledge about statistics, which was a prerequisite) how nursing theory has lead the way in changes how we practice nursing (google Jean Watson, Patricia Benner, Nursing Theorists); learned about unit hours, staffing and hospital economics and how it correlates to staffing and wages in leadership (WISHED I had took a hospital economics class...stats helped here too) Those "fluff" courses like ethics, philosophy, foreign language, help me transition into practice when dealing with families of different backgrounds, management issues, confidence in questioning orders and being active on the healthcare team...as an LPN I was doing all those things before, however, going through these require courses strengthened my understanding, rationale, and increased my effectiveness in educating peers, families, and management, leading to changes in my organization...I do see the value and power in education, if used effectively, and that's up to the individual and organizations to foster those conversations and allow the nurse to feel their potential and power as a competent nurse. And I have precepted RNs and LPNs as an LPN...And even then I stressed the importance of continuing education, knowing the business of healthcare, advocating effectively for your pts and for yourself to reduce burn out, and for the profession...ALLL tips I learned from ADNS and BSNS when I was in LPN and in my BSN programs...but these "mentors" evolved their practice as well...but their attitude was never condescending...they actually roasted students that were condescending. I do think evolving the profession is not a bad thing, and I do think that ADNs and DNs should be grandfathered in or bridged in, because either way, you still have to do continuing education, and you still have be on top if your own practice, your education is the root...what you do to enhance it makes your practice grow...

[Skips, MSN, RN]

This post is riddled with assumptions which would seem to be an error in critical thinking by the self-congratulatory holder of a BSN.

While the OP assuredly didn't compose his post with "How To Win Friends and Influence People" next to his keyboard, replying in an equally offensive way, as Frank RN has, smacks of the schoolyard rather than a professional.

Agreed.

[Superstar1182]

How many of those BSN% are skewed? Meaning how many where aids, LPNs, and ADNs, before becoming BSNs? So how can you say that BSNs have better pt outcomes?

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

Someone sounds a little bitter. Or jealous. Or both.

The fact is this: If nurses want to advance their profession and command higher salaries/wages, then it is only fair that the requirements and standards are set higher and that the qualifications are more standardized across the board. Most professions outside of trade school require a four-year degree. Nursing is one of those few fields where only a junior college degree/diploma is required to enter the field. Why is that? Nurses can't complain about not being treated like professionals if the degree itself doesn't require a BSN.

[Vines812]

I have a few thoughts on this.

For those saying they feel bashed for having a BSN, I'm sorry you feel that way. Of course education is never a bad thing! But as an ADN graduate..I feel bashed all the time. It is SO frustrating when you're overlooked for not having your BSN yet having took the same board exam, same amount of clinical hours, etc. I was on the phone with the recuriter at a hospital I have been working at for over 5 years. She was excited for my graduation and shared new grad program information with me but once I told her I was an ADN grad and not a BSN, things automatically changed. She told me to check in when I had the BSN. I've been a loyal employee for so long that it felt like a slap in the face!

Some ADN nurses are ADN nurses because of the impaction of nursing schools, not because they don't want to have more education. I had over 100+ college units coming INTO the ADN program. I had my associates already and had all the prerequisites to qualify for a BSN program- just couldn't get in one due to impaction. As a result, I now have two associates degrees when i could have my bachelor's. Many other people I know in my ADN program already had bachelor's degrees in other fields but their previous education is overlooked because it is not a BSN.

I am currently in an RN-BSN program and it is ridiculously easy compared to the ADN program I was in. Because of this I am very happy of the ADN education I had. I feel it taught me so much and never a day do i regret my decision to go to a CC for nursing.

The whole magnet status things is a joke. My instructor who has her PH.D was saying the whole reasoning behind it all is marketing and money. So I can agree that IS not fair.

I asked the nursing director at a local major hospital her thoughts on this. She said it is ridiculous and prefers ADN nurses because they tend to have stronger clinical skills, yet BSN is what the market is pushing for.