SICK of BSN Pedestal - page 6

Get off the Pedestal with the whole BSN vs ADN thing. A fact this is overlooked is that ADN does the same job as BSN and passes the NCLEX. Everyone then cried ADN is uneducated blah blah. WHY dont we... Read More

  1. Visit  psu_213 profile page
    0
    This thread is still going on?? Pretty sad.
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  3. Visit  Susie2310 profile page
    0
    Quote from HouTx
    Hmm - so are you going to ignore the increasing amount of research that links > BSN% staff with better patient outcomes? (American Association of Colleges of Nursing | Creating a More Highly Qualified Nursing Workforce) I realize that this is an emotional issue for some, but critical thinking should not stop at the bedside.
    Critical thinking should not stop at nurse educators either. I clicked on the link and see the study frequently referenced is the Aiken study. As I posted earlier, MunroRN and his/her state work group analyzed the evidence and conclusions drawn and decided not to accept the conclusions. MunroRN posted on this forum recently "BSN as entry into practice: Why we decided against it." Did you review the findings of MunroRN's work group?
  4. Visit  redhead_NURSE98! profile page
    1
    Quote from Frank RN
    @DUDERNGUY

    It sounds to me like you're jealous. The fact that us BSN graduates are getting ahead over an ADN such as yourself and the fact that you are forced to have to go back to school and spend more money (you already spent money to go to an ADN program and now you have to start from scratch to get a BSN, wasting not only your money but time too). $100,000 in debt? Nope, no loans and no debt here thanks to scholarships and government aid.
    "Start from scratch?" Maybe if you went to a for-profit school that advertises heavily on television...


    Wow, I just saw this post pre-edit on someone's reply...I suppose I understand why you wrote what you wrote, but.....yeah my opinion of this person isn't too high right now.
    Last edit by redhead_NURSE98! on Jan 11, '13
    nursel56 likes this.
  5. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    4
    I still don't understand how having multiple entry levels to being a nurse (ie LPN, ADN, BSN) somehow degrades the profession. True, medicine doesn't have different tiers or educational levels, but nursing is not medicine. Nursing encompasses a much, much broader scope of duties and possible professions. Nursing can range from basic, routine bedside care to complex case management. Having multiple levels of nurses compliments this. Do we really need BSN trained nurses working the floor in LTC? More power to them, but we all know they're only there because of the tight job market.

    What's wrong with having different levels of nurses with different levels of education? That's what the different scopes of practice are for. Maybe BSNs need their "own" licensure with it's "own" SOP. One that's separate (higher) than the ADNs.

    And will eliminating the ADN and LPNs really make you feel more respected? Whose respect are you vying for? If you want to continue your education, no one is stopping anyone. But why the desire to quash the ADN (and by extension LPN)? I question the motives of BSNs who propose this. Do they truly believe the ADNs working next to them are incapable of doing their jobs? Or is it just narcissism, them wanting to obtain some sort of (unobtainable) parity with physicians?


    One thing I hear over and over on these boards are the "BSN only" crowd saying that the work with wonderful ADN/diploma RNs who are wonderful nurses who are great at their job. In the same post they go on to say that all RNs should be BSNs and only BSNs can provide a safe level of care. Doesn't anyone see the HUGE logic lapse there?
    Last edit by BrandonLPN on Jan 11, '13
    nursel56, umbdude, yadi87, and 1 other like this.
  6. Visit  jadelpn profile page
    1
    This is completely from an outsiders perspective--but the NCLEX is exactly the same whether one is diploma, ADN or BSN, no? And if all ya'll pass the same exact test, then does it matter? So in other words, everyone goes into it with the same goal--to pass the NCLEX. A new grad is a new grad regardless of one's degree. So to further say that as an LPN I have shown my fair share of clincal skills to a new grad BSN, RNs as well as ADN, RNs, welp, lets just agree that each and every level of nursing has their strengths. But most of them are learned by experience. So one can have a master's and if one is not working, then it is not worth the paper your degree is printed on, except for the feeling of well being that education in itself can give one. Interestingly, if a current Diploma or ADN doesn't have any desire for managment, but are required to get their BSN in a set amount of time, do the duties of said nurse magically change? Is the pay scale that much more? If everyone is passing the same test, that should be the end of it. Unless someone wants to be management or advanced practice, then by all means, carry on then.
    BrandonLPN likes this.
  7. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    3
    And I'm really not trying to come off as "anti-education" or anything, though I suppose to many that's exactly how it seems. I have nothing against BSNs. And Im not one of those who says BSNs are less prepared clinically than ADNs. How could more education make one less prepared? That's just dumb. I'm just not convinced that a batchelors is necessary for every nursing job out there. Does that make me against higher education? If you had to hear constant implications that *your* job needs to be phased out, you'd be a little defensive too.
    CountryMomma, nursel56, and jadelpn like this.
  8. Visit  yadi87 profile page
    1
    Quote from BrandonLPN
    I still don't understand how having multiple entry levels to being a nurse (ie LPN, ADN, BSN) somehow degrades the profession. True, medicine doesn't have different tiers or educational levels, but nursing is not medicine. Nursing encompasses a much, much broader scope of duties and possible professions. Nursing can range from basic, routine bedside care to complex case management. Having multiple levels of nurses compliments this. Do we really need BSN trained nurses working the floor in LTC? More power to them, but we all know they're only there because of the tight job market. What's wrong with having different levels of nurses with different levels of education? That's what the different scopes of practice are for. Maybe BSNs need their "own" licensure with it's "own" SOP. One that's separate (higher) than the ADNs. And will eliminating the ADN and LPNs really make you feel more respected? Whose respect are you vying for? If you want to continue your education, no one is stopping anyone. But why the desire to quash the ADN (and by extension LPN)? I question the motives of BSNs who propose this. Do they truly believe the ADNs working next to them are incapable of doing their jobs? Or is it just narcissism, them wanting to obtain some sort of (unobtainable) parity with physicians?One thing I hear over and over on these boards are the "BSN only" crowd saying that the work with wonderful ADN/diploma RNs who are wonderful nurses who are great at their job. In the same post they go on to say that all RNs should be BSNs and only BSNs can provide a safe level of care. Doesn't anyone see the HUGE logic lapse there?
    I completely agree with this post
    jadelpn likes this.
  9. Visit  rngolfer53 profile page
    5
    Quote from Frank RN
    @DUDERNGUY

    It sounds to me like you're jealous. The fact that us BSN graduates are getting ahead over an ADN such as yourself and the fact that you are forced to have to go back to school and spend more money (you already spent money to go to an ADN program and now you have to start from scratch to get a BSN, wasting not only your money but time too). $100,000 in debt? Nope, no loans and no debt here thanks to scholarships and government aid.
    This post is riddled with assumptions which would seem to be an error in critical thinking by the self-congratulatory holder of a BSN.

    While the OP assuredly didn't compose his post with "How To Win Friends and Influence People" next to his keyboard, replying in an equally offensive way, as Frank RN has, smacks of the schoolyard rather than a professional.
  10. Visit  wooh profile page
    3
    Quote from BrandonLPN
    One thing I hear over and over on these boards are the "BSN only" crowd saying that the work with wonderful ADN/diploma RNs who are wonderful nurses who are great at their job. In the same post they go on to say that all RNs should be BSNs and only BSNs can provide a safe level of care. Doesn't anyone see the HUGE logic lapse there?
    "Future RNs should have to obtain a BSN" does NOT equal "Current ADN RNs are incompetent." Most professions change educational standards. Changing the standards does not mean that those who met the current standards are incompetent. It's just saying, "Let's up those standards for the future."
  11. Visit  ChaseZ profile page
    3
    But I like my pedestal....seriously. I do not think ADNs are any less competent than BSNs or vice versa but in today's economy and job market the BSN has a clear advantage (For new grads). My BSN classmates and I all had job offers prior to graduating whereas many of my ADN friends are 6 months post graduation and still unemployed, many without even getting interviews. The ones that do have jobs are at LTC or nursing homes. It just so happens these same friends are the ones who like to complain about BSNs claiming we are arrogant and don't deserve a job over them just because we took a few extra "worthless" classes. They have just as much of a chip in their shoulder as "BSNs on their pedestal". Should I stoop to the OP's level and start a thread "ADNs grab a step stool and step your game up". This hate fest is crazy.
    scrubsandasmile, KayRN1, and JillyRN like this.
  12. Visit  LadyFree28 profile page
    1
    Quote from ChaseZ
    But I like my pedestal....seriously. I do not think ADNs are any less competent than BSNs or vice versa but in today's economy and job market the BSN has a clear advantage (For new grads). My BSN classmates and I all had job offers prior to graduating whereas many of my ADN friends are 6 months post graduation and still unemployed, many without even getting interviews. The ones that do have jobs are at LTC or nursing homes. It just so happens these same friends are the ones who like to complain about BSNs claiming we are arrogant and don't deserve a job over them just because we took a few extra "worthless" classes. They have just as much of a chip in their shoulder as "BSNs on their pedestal". Should I stoop to the OP's level and start a thread "ADNs grab a step stool and step your game up". This hate fest is crazy.
    ^^^Agree!!! Enough of the LPN vs RN vs BSN...this is a profession, not a 3-way wrestling match.

    PS...a lot us BSNs were able to be on this pedestal by hardworking ADNs (as well as LPNs) through those programs or by co-workers...at lot of us enjoy the skill mix that our profession entails....as for the future...if we are going in the direction of BSN so be it for the better (including courses like philosophy, ethics, hospital economics, health policy as core courses along with statistics, math, and foreign language or culture- based classes, is NOT necessarily a BAD thing...)
    SoldierNurse22 likes this.
  13. Visit  LadyFree28 profile page
    0
    Quote from wooh
    "Future RNs should have to obtain a BSN" does NOT equal "Current ADN RNs are incompetent." Most professions change educational standards. Changing the standards does not mean that those who met the current standards are incompetent. It's just saying, "Let's up those standards for the future."
    ^^^Agree.
  14. Visit  jadelpn profile page
    1
    As BrandonLPN pointed out in an earlier post, then perhaps there should be a different "level" of nursing for each holder of each level of nursing each having different levels of care one can provide. And there should be then a different level of questions on the NCLEX.

    Because when all is said and done, everyone--Diploma, ADN's and BSN's take the same exact NCLEX. And every one is at the same new grad clinical level when starting out. Because a BSN would be more learned in leadership and theory (and as an LPN I had to take a class or 2 in leadership as well as about 952 care plans we had to write ourselves....ah, the good ole days LOL) ANYWHO, just because one is learned in those things doesn't mean they can be put into practice. And depending on a new grad's situation, it may be that one is at a nursing home or skilled care and your supervisor is an LPN. One can have as much education as a university can give them and making it work in real life doesn't always transfer well. And one can be the best leader in the business, however, if one doesn't have a grasp of clinical compentencies, then it is difficult at best to direct and supervise a group of nurses when one has not a clue what exactly they are doing clincally. Theory is awesome, but it is nice to know the end result....
    BrandonLPN likes this.


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