SICK of BSN Pedestal - page 15

Get off the Pedestal with the whole BSN vs ADN thing. A fact this is overlooked is that ADN does the same job as BSN and passes the NCLEX. Everyone then cried ADN is uneducated blah blah. WHY dont we... Read More

  1. Visit  alicia125 profile page
    3
    When you obtain a baccalaureate degree in whatever you study it's about balance and being well rounded.....that's what you call fluff....I actually enjoyed my classes that were off my major....life isn't one sided and neither should education....

    Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com
    Laurie52, Tina, RN, and sallyrnrrt like this.
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  3. Visit  LadyFree28 profile page
    1
    Quote from redhead_NURSE98!

    It is. I can't believe anyone who went to college would disagree that they took fluffy and extraneous courses. Like I needed fine arts to be a paralegal, lawyer, accountant, doctor? Please argue that I needed it so that I could "talk up" with similarly educated people, so I can show you a whole butt ton of people who seem to be doing just fine without it.
    ^I can disagree...learning and knowing a foreign language allows me to communicate with individuals with various backgrounds, so does history, including art history, allows for examination of cultural backgrounds; Philosophy allowed for the ear of learning rationales and critical thinking. English and Public Speaking allowed me to learn ways to communicate. Abnormal Psych prepared me for Mental Health nursing, and assess how and why my peers and clients utilize certain behaviors....EACH of those "Arts" and "Sciences" courses are the BASE of what you are going to get, the ability up understand the WHY, and that KNOWLEDGE is power.

    I respect the route of ANY education, BTW...my degree is far from "fluff," thank you, and so do most ADN programs as well have said "fluff;"; you still need those courses PRIOR to entering the nursing program or taken concurrently, so each course is REQUIRED. And I started at an ADN program, so the same prerequisites were required, while the ADN program required 200- level courses in about 4 subjects, the BSN covered more 200-level courses in all subjects, and each pathway was beneficial. When I did not succeed the first time due to test anxiety, they welcomed me back, however, I would've ended up doing 4 years and coming out of school with an Associates; for me, it made more sense to me, to get my Bachelors. I had to get my LPN first, which I did; when I returned to school I did two years to get my BSN.

    So to assume that college is "fluff" is missing the point and reeks of ignorance...If one didn't take ANYTHING away from their Bachelors education, that is relative to that person...But for ME, and the nurses I work with, we see the INVESTMENT we made, and utilize each part of it. And there is NOTHING wrong with that.

    Nursing is a profession that has CONSTANT education, regardless of which path. Our scope is changing as far as more complex and sicker patients are in our hospital and our community. It behooves one to be receptive to that education to be able to take on our patients, to care for them, provide resource, educate, and empower them. If one wants to continue to invest academically and professionally in their education, by all means they can do so, it's beneficial for the nurse and the community as a whole.
    sallyrnrrt likes this.
  4. Visit  alicia125 profile page
    0
    Quote from LadyFree28

    ^I can disagree...learning and knowing a foreign language allows me to communicate with individuals with various backgrounds, so does history, including art history, allows for examination of cultural backgrounds; Philosophy allowed for the ear of learning rationales and critical thinking. English and Public Speaking allowed me to learn ways to communicate. Abnormal Psych prepared me for Mental Health nursing, and assess how and why my peers and clients utilize certain behaviors....EACH of those "Arts" and "Sciences" courses are the BASE of what you are going to get, the ability up understand the WHY, and that KNOWLEDGE is power.

    I respect the route of ANY education, BTW...my degree is far from "fluff," thank you, and so do most ADN programs as well have said "fluff;"; you still need those courses PRIOR to entering the nursing program or taken concurrently, so each course is REQUIRED. And I started at an ADN program, so the same prerequisites were required, while the ADN program required 200- level courses in about 4 subjects, the BSN covered more 200-level courses in all subjects, and each pathway was beneficial. When I did not succeed the first time due to test anxiety, they welcomed me back, however, I would've ended up doing 4 years and coming out of school with an Associates; for me, it made more sense to me, to get my Bachelors. I had to get my LPN first, which I did; when I returned to school I did two years to get my BSN.

    So to assume that college is "fluff" is missing the point and reeks of ignorance...If one didn't take ANYTHING away from their Bachelors education, that is relative to that person...But for ME, and the nurses I work with, we see the INVESTMENT we made, and utilize each part of it. And there is NOTHING wrong with that.

    Nursing is a profession that has CONSTANT education, regardless of which path. Our scope is changing as far as more complex and sicker patients are in our hospital and our community. It behooves one to be receptive to that education to be able to take on our patients, to care for them, provide resource, educate, and empower them. If one wants to continue to invest academically and professionally in their education, by all means they can do so, it's beneficial for the nurse and the community as a whole.
    Well said!

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  5. Visit  LadyFree28 profile page
    0
    Quote from alicia125

    Well said!

    Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com
    Thanks, so was your post!
  6. Visit  redhead_NURSE98! profile page
    1
    Quote from LadyFree28
    So to assume that college is "fluff" is missing the point and reeks of ignorance...
    Yes, because that's exactly what I said, that "college is fluff." Except it wasn't. And I have an associates, bachelor's and a doctorate degree. And there was plenty o fluff. It's so funny how we all "need" these classes that weren't "needed" 20 years ago! But no, no unnecessary classes in there at all.
    Nurse Leigh likes this.
  7. Visit  BostonFNP profile page
    0
    Healthcare /nursing/medicine hasn't changed at al in the past 20 years.
  8. Visit  Esme12 profile page
    1
    While I agree that the future of nursing entry should be a BSN, to remain competitive. I do not agree that the ADN is an inferior education...in most cases. The economy has produced inferior for profit schools (I know your for profit school is excellent) that are all about the money and could care less about the education....in my honest opinion have single handedly dumbed down the nursing curriculum and requirements....all for the mighty dollar.

    My college ADN program......from a long time ago.....was BRUTAL. I went to school from sun up to sun down. I had micro, biochem, pharmacology, ethics and legalities (all separate classes). Today......They have dropped the ADN program all together. It is now....the accelerated BSN program...... class per class. This is my personal experience.

    I have a BSN. But it didn't make me a better nurse.....per se. I tire of this argument/debate time and time again for the las t 34 years....over and over again...it drive me NUTS!!!!!!!!! This is why I should just stay out of the conversation.....

    I don't know why we as a profession must constantly bicker and brow beat each other with this nonsense. If the BSN edcuation is so superior then we as nurses should do the right thing and stop the ADN and diploma point of entry education (even though we all take the same exam) and protect the patients. Obviously it can't be that detrimental for there are diploma RN schools still open and yes they get jobs (I know of one in Indiana) ADN's graduate and pass boards every day.

    If the profession as a whole decides to leave it alone then we need to be respectful of one another and appreciate each other for who we are and what we bring to the profession....and stop with the my education is better than yours.....

    Time to step away from the keyboard.....I just can't stay objective.

    Lets just treat each other as we would wish to be treated.
    redhead_NURSE98! likes this.
  9. Visit  BostonFNP profile page
    1
    I agree that the direction our education system, in general, is headed is deplorable. The argument about for-profit schools is another debate in entirety, and one that involves all of us.

    As for the BSN-entry, I think that people are fixated on looking at the past when arguing this issue. For me, it's a debate about future not the past.

    Medicine and nursing are changing with more drugs, more complexity, and shorter inpatient stays, demanding more of nurses to practice at the full extent of nursing scope. This includes nurses at the bedside but extends to nurses in educator, research, outpatient, home, and community roles.
    mariebailey likes this.
  10. Visit  sallyrnrrt profile page
    5
    All right i have to fess up, as a diploma nurse for 41yrs, a super nurse out of the gate that arrogantly thought my first job at city of memphis hosp. ccu (now THE MED) i only spent like a week in orrientation, where the univ. Tenn bsn graduates, spent 6-8weeks etcetcetc, always been promoted head nurse, nurse clinician, director of er, director of nurses etcetcetc.....i felt superior to the bsn, out of the box, of course i had 3.5yrs of college as biology mjr, prior to nursing school, and picked up an assoc.applied science a few years back in resp. therapy... so accademics challenged i felt not :-) but if i am truly as intellegent as i propose to be, and my assessment and critical thinking skills are sharp, i would have to be a fool to think less education is adequate :-):-):-)

    At almost 64yr. Age i am connecting the dots, working a RN to BSN PROGRAM, that i should be through with in 6-9mos.
    i have an itch to complete an MSN- NP also. It isnt for a job, it isnt for money. i already am a director of nurses, it is for the professional challenge, continuation of being the best nurse I can be, and when i do end my nursing career like in 20more years :-):-):-):-), i will end it in prosessional standing of the times. Eating a little crow and humble pie in this case does not taste so bad.
    Last edit by sallyrnrrt on Feb 25, '13
    MrChicagoRN, NRSKarenRN, TriciaJ, and 2 others like this.
  11. Visit  alicia125 profile page
    1
    Quote from sallyrnrrt
    All right i have to fess up, as a diploma nurse for 41yrs, a super nurse out of the gate that arrogantly thought my first job at city of memphis hosp. ccu (now THE MED) i only spent like a week in orrientation, where the univ. Tenn bsn graduates, spent 6-8weeks etcetcetc, always been promoted head nurse, nurse clinician, director of er, director of nurses etcetcetc.....i felt superior to the bsn, out of the box, of course i had 3.5yrs of college as biology mjr, prior to nursing school, and picked up an assoc.applied science a few years back in resp. therapy... so accademics challenged i felt not :-) but if i am truly as intellegent as i propose to be, and my assessment and critical thinking skills are sharp, i would have to be a fool to think less education is adequate :-):-):-)

    At almost 64yr. Age i am connecting the dots, working a RN to BSN PROGRAM, that i should be through with in 6-9mos.
    i have an itch to complete an MSN- NP also. It isnt for a job, it isnt for money. i already am a director of nurses, it is for the professional challenge, continuation of being the best nurse I can be, and when i do end my nursing career like in 20more years :-):-):-):-), i will end it in prosessional standing of the times. Eating a little crow and humble pie in this case does not taste so bad.
    I think you are a great example to any nurse regardless of education level.

    Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com
    TriciaJ likes this.
  12. Visit  bisson profile page
    2
    Sorry to bring up the dead, but I found this thread looking for something else. And all I have to say is, my MSN/ MBA degrees trumps all of you BSN's !

    hahahaha I'm kidding because this thread is so ridiculous. Spoken by a nurse who got an ADN, then a BSN and now in school for a dual masters.
    Tobs31 and LadyFree28 like this.
  13. Visit  TriciaJ profile page
    2
    Quote from cabogirl
    Wow... Bitter much?? I'm sorry - but I'm tired of people trying to dumb down the BSN. How can more education be a bad thing?? Do I think having a BSN makes me a better nurse than an ADN? NO! I was trained by an AMAZING ADN preceptor & work alongside many fantastic ADN nurses. But am I proud of earning my bachelor degree? HELL YES! It makes me angry that this is always such a hot topic for debate. Why judge someone for continuing their own education? And for the record - it was not just "an extra PE class" that earned me that degree! That's just an ignorant statement to make & it's offensive. I have yet to hear a BSN nurse make derogatory comments toward ADN nurses...because quite honestly, I don't believe that most BSN nurses consider it an issue, but damned if I don't constantly see a new thread on AN nearly every week bashing nurses who went for their BSN. It's all so petty and not conducive to the work environment at all! Sorry to come across harsh - it's just frustrating to be made to feel like I need to constantly defend my hard earned degree. I am proud of it, just as an ADN should be proud of theirs.
    You are mostly right. But yes, I do hear BSNs voicing the belief that they are better nurses. And no, no one thinks it's a bad thing to want more education. The problem is that a lot of BSN programs are just expensive naked emperors. I've precepted many new BSN nurses that I believe have been royally ripped off by their schools. And some have indeed received a stellar education for their money.

    But it's still very inconsistent and there's still a lot of unfounded hype. (And please don't quote those dodgy studies.) When I see standardization among BSN programs and feel certain I'd get my money's worth, I'll be next in line. But I do recommend new nurses find a way to get their BSN; either first or in addition to ADN. Times are what they are. Just try to get the best bang for your education buck.
    Here.I.Stand and hope3456 like this.
  14. Visit  BrandonLPN profile page
    6
    Quote from BostonFNP
    Healthcare /nursing/medicine hasn't changed at al in the past 20 years.
    And nurses who graduated 20 years ago have learned something new on the job each and every day of those 20 years.

    Just because a nurse graduated 20 years ago and hasn't went to school since, that doesn't automatically mean their practice is out of date. As the field evolved, so have they.

    I would argue that knowledge comes from experience every bit as much as it comes from education.


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