Protect your profession... - page 6

Hello fellow professionals, May I have your attention please. An allnurses.com user by the name of nursebrandie made a valid point in the emergency nursing subforum that I would like to discuss... Read More

  1. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    What is the differance between a nurses aide with six weeks of OJT, and an LPN/LVN with only two semesters of post HS education? Or an ADN with a blue collar associates degree? Not much. We have shot ourselves in the foot by not educationally distancing oursleves from blue collar counterparts. It is all about IMAGE.

    :angryfire :angryfire :trout: :trout: :smackingf :smiley_ab
  2. by   llg
    Quote from heynursie
    Yes, I feel it's unfair that AD programs tack more and more classes on to their curricullum making it difficult to finish in 2 years, it takes atleast 3 years. Oh and then when you go back to college to obtain your BSN it takes another 2 years!! It would have been easier to just to obtain my BSN.
    Exactly. The people who should be angriest about the efforts to produce ADN graduates who can fulfil the same roles as a BSN graduate should be the ADN grads themselves. They should WANT the profession to more clearly distinguish between the 2 degrees and to make the 2 programs more clearly educationally different -- so that ADN grads don't continue to be "soaked" by the ADN schools who ask them to take more and more classes (and pay more and more money) for that ADN degree when they still need to go back for the BSN if they want much career advancement.

    The ADN grads themselves should be leading the call to more clearly distinguish between ADN and BSN grads.
  3. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Distinguish exactly how?
  4. by   llg
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    Distinguish exactly how?
    To say something a long the lines of ....

    An ADN program should require 4 full time semesters of college-level work and include the following content (Blah, blah, blah), thus preparing the ADN graduate to work in the following roles (blah, blah, blah). A BSN program includes the additional content of ...blah, blah, blah ... and prepares student for for the additional roles of blah, blah, blah. It would typically take 8 full time semesters of study to cover the BSN content.

    What would be eliminated are those ADN programs that have so many pre-requisites that it takes 5 or 6 semesters of full time study to complete ... and those ADN programs that try to include everything found in a BSN program so that people can't tell the difference between the 2 degrees and/or between the graduates of the 2 types of programs. There should be a clear distinction between the 2 types of programs as they award 2 different degrees.
  5. by   caliotter3
    It's the money, honey. Education is an industry. We wouldn't be spending so much time in school, taking more and more classes, for less and less, if it were not for the education system making money off our tuition and the textbook industry making money off us, and whatever other ancillary industries making money off us. Repeat an anatomy class b/c you didn't finish school and it is more than 5 years old? Come now. We're not that stupid. Repetition of courses could in most instances, be handled with proficiency exams. But then the schools wouldn't have the added tuition, now, would they?
  6. by   SmilingBluEyes
    I still say I would rather see AD programs converted to BSN ones. End the discord already.
  7. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from caliotter3
    It's the money, honey. Education is an industry. We wouldn't be spending so much time in school, taking more and more classes, for less and less, if it were not for the education system making money off our tuition and the textbook industry making money off us, and whatever other ancillary industries making money off us. Repeat an anatomy class b/c you didn't finish school and it is more than 5 years old? Come now. We're not that stupid. Repetition of courses could in most instances, be handled with proficiency exams. But then the schools wouldn't have the added tuition, now, would they?

    OHHH I SOOO agree. And universities are notoriously capable of deeming so many classes "untransferable" in such an arbitrary manner it's criminal.
  8. by   Kelly_the_Great
    I don't know if this has already been mentioned or not (8 pgs - I confess to my laziness); however, do you guys realize that almost every other offshoot from nursing (PT, OT, RT, etc.) is able to independently bill for the services they provide, whereas, nursing is still part of the room cost?

    I believe Markdanurse's concerns have real merit and deserve reflection.
  9. by   lindarn
    Quote from Kelly_the_Great
    I don't know if this has already been mentioned or not (8 pgs - I confess to my laziness); however, do you guys realize that almost every other offshoot from nursing (PT, OT, RT, etc.) is able to independently bill for the services they provide, whereas, nursing is still part of the room cost?

    I believe Markdanurse's concerns have real merit and deserve reflection.
    And PT, OT, Pharmacy, Dieticians, ALL require a graduate level of education, and ALL MAKE ALOT MORE MONEY THAN NURSING. They are leaving us in
    their dust. We will continue to be rolled into the room rate, along with the complimentary roll of toilet paper, and box of Kleenex.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
  10. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Quote from lindarn
    And PT, OT, Pharmacy, Dieticians, ALL require a graduate level of education, and ALL MAKE ALOT MORE MONEY THAN NURSING. They are leaving us in
    their dust. We will continue to be rolled into the room rate, along with the complimentary roll of toilet paper, and box of Kleenex.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington

    And by members of our own profession, i see....
  11. by   Kelly_the_Great
    I'm graduating with BSN in May and one of the two hospitals in our area has a scheduled recruitment diner for us in the next couple of weeks.

    After the different speakers have given their presentations and they are open for questions from the audience, I'm going to ask them since they are pursuing magnet status and "prefer" BSN if they are willing to pay a differential for the degree.

    Of course, I'll be asking nicely...:wink2: Won't be holding my breath ( )though!
  12. by   lindarn
    Quote from Kelly_the_Great
    I'm graduating with BSN in May and one of the two hospitals in our area has a scheduled recruitment diner for us in the next couple of weeks.

    After the different speakers have given their presentations and they are open for questions from the audience, I'm going to ask them since they are pursuing magnet status and "prefer" BSN if they are willing to pay a differential for the degree.

    Of course, I'll be asking nicely...:wink2: Won't be holding my breath ( )though!
    How about doing something novel? Just say that you will work for them IF they pay a differential for a BSN. Make it clear that there ARE hospitals who pay a diferential for a BSN, however few, and that you will be more likely to work where your education will be financially rewarded.

    When PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, increased their entry into practice, they did not just sit and wait for hospitals to increase their pay. It was EXPECTED that a higher level education would be rewarded with an increase in pay. in other words, you have to ask for it, andbe prepared to walk away if it is not forthcoming. Perhaps if more BSNs asked for a higher rate of pay, and walked if it was not offered, their would be a expected igher rate of pay for BSNs. Hospitals will not just offer it, we have to ask for it. Too many nurses are not willing to do this, and of course are not supported by co- workers.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
  13. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from lindarn
    How about doing something novel? Just say that you will work for them IF they pay a differential for a BSN. Make it clear that there ARE hospitals who pay a diferential for a BSN, however few, and that you will be more likely to work where your education will be financially rewarded.

    When PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, increased their entry into practice, they did not just sit and wait for hospitals to increase their pay. It was EXPECTED that a higher level education would be rewarded with an increase in pay. in other words, you have to ask for it, andbe prepared to walk away if it is not forthcoming. Perhaps if more BSNs asked for a higher rate of pay, and walked if it was not offered, their would be a expected igher rate of pay for BSNs. Hospitals will not just offer it, we have to ask for it. Too many nurses are not willing to do this, and of course are not supported by co- workers.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    If more BSNs did JUST THAT, then there would be a differential that actually justified the increased education AND more people would pursue that difference, both those already in the field, and those making choices of their education pathways.

    In no time at all, the whole BSN vs. ADN debate would be resolved in the marketplace.

    Until that time, at issue is NOT the status of my ADN degree, but the non-status of BSN degrees, at least, by comparison.

    I got my bach degree after my ADN. It is not a BSN. There was no reason to pursue such a degree. The university ring I wear, in THIS university community, says much more (and provides much more respect) about my education than any initials after the initials after my name. See the doctors in my community are just as proud of the SAME university ring THEY wear. They identify with my 'peer status' by wearing that ring more than they do about initials they don't even see.

    You want me to go back and get my BSN. Fair enough. But first, show me a reason why I should. I'll believe the rhetoric about higher pay and respect only when I see it.

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Mar 17, '07

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