Protect your profession... - page 4

Hello fellow professionals, May I have your attention please. An allnurses.com user by the name of nursebrandie made a valid point in the emergency nursing subforum that I would like to discuss... Read More

  1. by   PMFB-RN
    Quote from KMSRN
    If you notice, pharmacists and physical therapists now require a doctorate for entry level. OTs, dietitians, social workers require at bare minimum a bachelor's degree and most have a masters. Nursing has refused to raise the bar on education and is consequently being left in the dust.
    *** Personally I an happy that nursing hasn't followed those other professions in raising the education bar. I have looked at several of these programs and the extra school doesn't really involve anything to make them better practitioners. I see it as just a way to get more money out of students.
    In my state (Wisconsin) ADN and BSN students take the same nursing classes.
    If it was up to me it would be like this:
    RN - two year degree. (one that could actually be done in two years)
    CRNA & NP would be BSN (like they used to be)
    PT, OT, Pharm would all be 4 year bachelors programs.

    However nobody with any power has asked me what I thought
  2. by   PANurseRN1
    Quote from burn out
    Here I go again, it seems I always take the opposite side of the argument on here. However, I believe that if paramedics take over the nurses job in E.R. it is because the E.R. nurse is letting it happen. The E.R. nurses at my hospital have totally isolated themselves from the other departments to the point that they seem arrogant. They never get pulled to do bedside nursing on the floors or units because they are ER nurses (does that mean they don't now how to do pateint care?) When patients have been admitted and they are being held (sometimes a day or two ) in ER for a bed, the nurses never even touch the admission orders because they are ER nurses. Once the supervisor told the ER nurse that a patient needed a bedpan (the nurse was reading the paper at the desk). The ER nurse replied "I didn't spend 60 thousand dollars to go to nursing school to put people on the bedpan." If all ER nurses have this attitude someone has to do patient care in the ER and it looks like the paramedics are going to try. We all take the same test and we all go to the same schools and learn the same things but it seems that the ER nurses are putting themselves in a very tight and limited position. If you are not going to "Nurse" then it proves that you are not needed and will be replaced with something else.
    If an ED nurse gets pulled to the floor and then is needed back in the ED, what is she supposed to do with her assignment? There are a lot of problems inherent with pulling staff out of the ED.

    Why all the hating on ED nurses?
  3. by   elcue
    PMFB RN wrote: " *** That nurse is a moron for two reasons:
    1. S/he thinks they are to good to do a little basic patient care.
    2. What kind of a moron would spend $60K just to be an RN?"
    _______________________________________

    60K isn't a bad deal for a bachelor's degree these days. (and an experienced nurse earns at least that in a year in many parts of the country)

    "just to be an RN" ?????? :angryfire you sure don't value your own profession, do you? and shame on you for calling the other nurse a moron
  4. by   PMFB-RN
    60K isn't a bad deal for a bachelor's degree these days. (and an experienced nurse earns at least that in a year in many parts of the country)

    *** I guess it depends on your point of view. It's about $50K more than what mine costs (though I am not paying for any of it). If one can become an RN for around $3000 (what it cost me in 2006)or so then the $57K left over is pure profit over the education investment.

    "just to be an RN" ?????? :angryfire you sure don't value your own profession,

    *** Of course I do. Nothing I have said indicates otherwise. I was commenting on the $60K, not the career.

    do you? and shame on you for calling the other nurse a moron

    *** Shame on that nurse for thinking they are too good to do basic patient care.
  5. by   Tweety
    Quote from elcue
    60K isn't a bad deal for a bachelor's degree these days. (and an experienced nurse earns at least that in a year in many parts of the country)

    "just to be an RN" ?????? :angryfire you sure don't value your own profession, do you? and shame on you for calling the other nurse a moron
    I guess it depends on location. In Florida $60,000 for a BSN is outrageous. But I'm sure there are private schools that cost that much. I agree calling someone a moron for spending that much is not appropriate.

    Please remember to discuss ideas and the original topic without getting personal with presuming someone should feel shame and doesn't value their profession for holding an opinion. All opinions are valid whether we agree or disagree.
  6. by   Tweety
    Quote from PMFB-RN

    *** I guess it depends on your point of view. It's about $50K more than what mine costs (though I am not paying for any of it). If one can become an RN for around $3000 (what it cost me in 2006)or so then the $57K left over is pure profit over the education investment.
    Yes, it does depend on your point of view and I'm glad you acknowledge that. However, just because you can get a BSN for $3000 (or free in your case) doesn't mean that those of us who can't are morons.

    $3000.00 would barely cover one year here in a public university to get a BSN.

    Many people want to become nurses bad enough they will pay private school fees to become so. They are not morons, but making a sacrifice and a choice that should be respected.

    However, I agree on the point that no matter what you pay for your education and what letters you have behind your name, if you're an RN you're a moron if you think basic care is beneath you.
  7. by   WolfpackRed
    Quote from medsurgnurse
    But really the ADN requirements are just a few credits short of BSN.
    Are you sure about this? I may be taking this out of context, but there are more than "a few credits" difference b/w an associate prepared RN and a bachelor's prepared RN. Granted, the nursing education of a BSN may have a few more requirements than an ADN, but the other half of the BSN degree may demand an additional 60 credit hours of general college education.
  8. by   WolfpackRed
    Quote from calla2114
    I am a nursing student at a community college...I have read the entire thread and just wanted to add that not one person in my class will have finished thier ADN in only 2 years!! We have approximately 2 years of full time pre req's at my school before we can even be accepted into the Nursing portion which is then another 5 semesters...so yes I will have gone to school just as long as someone that gets a BSN...no I will not have taken all the exact classes...why would I go to school for 4+ years and get a lesser degree??? Because I could do it for less money and I could get into a night and weekend program which works better for me and my family!! It was not worth it to me to pay so much more and get done with school and only make 500 dollars more a YEAR!!! I am not saying that it is not worth getting a BSN..and I will get mine eventually...all I wanted to say is that I doubt many go directly into a CC and graduate exactly 2 years later with thier ADN...at least not around here...I am sure other programs are run differently!!!
    Last year in my nursing leadership class, a small group of students looked at the different education levels in nursing. It was found that even though new grads from either program start out at the same payscale, over time, I don't recall how much time, BSN prepared nurses will earn more than associate prepared nurses. It was thought that BSN nurses had greater mobility within the profession, as has been discussed in other "ADN or BSN" threads. One study they also found showed that ADN prepared nurses, specifically nurses whose highest level of education was an associate's degree, often got out of nursing after five years. This study proposed that these ADN nurse did not have the educational background to allow them to cope with the emotional and mental stresses of working in the nursing profession, that is they could not "see the bigger picture".

    I know that this may upset some folks, I do realize that one study does not make an idea fact, and I know that the findings do not apply in every situation, but I found this all interesting.
  9. by   Marie_LPN, RN
    Yes, it does depend on your point of view and I'm glad you acknowledge that. However, just because you can get a BSN for $3000 (or free in your case) doesn't mean that those of us who can't are morons.
    Not to mention that old phrase "you get what you pay for."
  10. by   vamedic4
    [quote=dinith88;2063141]your experience with er nurses is sad i agree. but people are people and you can see this type of behavior on any nursing unit/facility, etc...dont let these dummies give you a bad impression of er nurses. (besides, she should have made the paramedic put the patient on the pot! :spin: that'd probably be the only way an er-paramedic could impress me )

    yet another divisive statement. while i respect dinith's opinion, perhaps her choice of words could have been a little nicer. if you ask me to do it...i'm all over it. "make" me do it, and we're going to have a problem.
  11. by   Myxel67
    Quote from WolfpackRed
    Are you sure about this? I may be taking this out of context, but there are more than "a few credits" difference b/w an associate prepared RN and a bachelor's prepared RN. Granted, the nursing education of a BSN may have a few more requirements than an ADN, but the other half of the BSN degree may demand an additional 60 credit hours of general college education.

    I already had a baccaulareate degree (BA in English and Secondary Education) when I decided to go to nursing school in Miami, FL. My education was being paid for by a state program designed to help members of workforce who had lost jobs due to conpany downsizing, or to airline closings (PanAm, Eastern, National). I was accepted by an Accelerated BA/BS to BSN program which led to BSN in one intense year., another Accelerated program that led to ASN after one intense year, A BSN program in which I would earn a BSN in 2 years, an ASN program which would lead to associated degree in nurning after 5 semesters.

    At that time (1992), I chose the 2 year ASN program for several reasons:

    1. It started earlier than the other programs.
    2. My house had just been destroyed by Hurricane Andrew, and I thought the program I chose might not be as stressful as the others (WRONG!!)
    3. The program that was paying for my classes would not pay for a second bachelor's degree--even though the time to get the 2nd BS/BA was the same, and even though the program would pay for a BS/BA for someone who did not yet have one.

    One reason I think the ASN took so long is that all prerequisites (general education and science classes)had to be completed before starting the nursing program. Those prereqs amounted to the two years of classes needed to transfer to a BA/BS program at a 4-year university. Once the nursing classes started, the course load was only 10-12 hours: A nursing theory class and a clinical class each semester, with one or 2 classes such as Pharmacology Math (a 2-hr class) added in.

    The college from which I received my BA had a nursing program as well. Students took science and general education courses onsite, but went to Floyd County Hospital for the nursing classes. These students had both general ed and nursing classes together. At the end of three years, they were qualified to take NCLEX and work as RN. By staying for the 4th year, a BSN was earned.

    I think if I had it to do over again, I would have taken the BSN program and paid for it myself. Not because I consider the ASN program inferior (we had higher NCLEX pass rate that the 4-yr state BSN program in town), but because of the added flexibility and that I could go right into a nurse practitioner program now.
    Last edit by Myxel67 on Feb 17, '07
  12. by   Myxel67
    [quote=Bethy-lynn specialized residency).
    And to respond to the question of pay, If one bothers to look at the actual amount hours worked in a week, v. the overhead of running an office, minus malpratice insurance, physicians (on average) make less than we do per hour. Do the math.

    Don't bet on it.....
  13. by   PMFB-RN
    Yes, it does depend on your point of view and I'm glad you acknowledge that. However, just because you can get a BSN for $3000 (or free in your case) doesn't mean that those of us who can't are morons.

    *** Sorry for the misunderstanding. It cost me $3,000 to become an RN. Another $7,000 to get a BSN. The Moron is the person who pays that much to become and RN _AND_ thinks they are too good to do basic patient care. The person who sat reading a paper while their patient was in need of basic care as noted in the message I replied to.

    Many people want to become nurses bad enough they will pay private school fees to become so. They are not morons, but making a sacrifice and a choice that should be respected.

    *** Of course! I think it's a shame they have to do that but I certainly understand. I hope that after they pay that much money they will not sit around at work on paid time and dismiss their patients needs with flippant remarks.

    However, I agree on the point that no matter what you pay for your education and what letters you have behind your name, if you're an RN you're a moron if you think basic care is beneath you.

    *** Yes we agree.

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