NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees - page 40

But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse. New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN... Read More

  1. by   caroladybelle
    Quote from sushiart
    Re: the issue with Canadian nurses and the BSN req.---would that not have something to do with the nature of the healthcare system there and why they prefer to work in the US?

    Has anyone discussed that?
    And the reason that the BSN requirement failed in North Dakota is????- with a US healthcare system.

    Canadian systems at very minimum covers everyone for care - delayed and slow at times but it covers them - unlike the USA where many of our patients do not pay a dime, and those that are well insured are charged significantly less than those that are not (due to group rate negotiations).
  2. by   arita2
    I don't care how it hashes out as long as BSNs get more considerably more pay for their higher education. When that happens, people will find a way to continue on in their studies to the BSN level, guaranteed!: )
  3. by   RNsRWe
    Quote from arita2
    I don't care how it hashes out as long as BSNs get more considerably more pay for their higher education. When that happens, people will find a way to continue on in their studies to the BSN level, guaranteed!: )
    And as long as a BSN RN and an ADN RN are doing the exact same floor nurse job, that's not gonna happen.
  4. by   want2scuba
    Quote from lizz
    As long as they don't make it an immediate requirement, it wouldn't be so bad. If they tried to do that in California, it would be a disaster. California has 70 ADN programs versus 20 BSNs. Talk about a nursing shortage.

    I'm not sure why any bachelor's would do. The study they cited examined BSNs, so that would seem to thwart the primary justification for all of this.

    Just about every state university in California has either implemented an online ADN-BSN program or has plans to do so. So, given a 10 year time frame, that hopefully wouldn't be too bad since you have to do continuing education anyway. Those programs are cheaper too, and most employers pay for them.

    I tend to agree with this somewhat, but I think it should probably be a BSN requirement, not any bachelors. Hell, I could go get a bachelor's in home ecomonics and that would supposedly make me a better nurse?

    They have to be talking about a BSN. I have a BA in Journalism. How would that make me a better nurse? I just got finished with chemistry. It was the hardest class I've ever taken. That includes any class I ever took to get my BA in Journalism.

    A friend of mine, who is a supervisor at Northwestern Hospital in Chicago, is working on her BSN online through the University of Phoenix. She said that it isn't half as hard as the work she did getting her Associate of Science degree in Nursing. She just wants to get her BSN, though.

    She wants to be a Nurse Practitioner, and travel around to third world countries providing them with medical care. That is what she is doing with her vacations right now. I'm glad that there are people out there like her. I'm just not one of them.

    My vacations have to include scuba diving. That does more to relax me than anything.
  5. by   RNsRWe
    Quote from want2scuba
    A friend of mine, who is a supervisor at Northwestern Hospital in Chicago, is working on her BSN online through the University of Phoenix. She said that it isn't half as hard as the work she did getting her Associate of Science degree in Nursing. She just wants to get her BSN, though.
    This is off-topic, but how does your friend like their program? I'm comparing that one to Excelsior, with only propaganda in front of me, and some input would be nice!
  6. by   want2scuba
    Quote from RNsRWe
    This is off-topic, but how does your friend like their program? I'm comparing that one to Excelsior, with only propaganda in front of me, and some input would be nice!
    I actually thinks she enjoys it. I'll ask her more about it. I know she has had to write tons of papers. She used to have me proof her papers. Now she has gotten so good at writing, she doesn't need my help.

    Like I said, she says working online toward her BSN is much easier than the work she did to get her Associate of Science degree as an RN.

    Here in Chicago, we have University of Phoenix buildings. I really don't know much about that. I know she pays out-of-state tuition.

    She has tomorrow off. I'll ask her more about their program.:typing
  7. by   chickpea25
    hmm. this could pose a problem, especially for graduates of masters in nursing programs. If I attend one of the direct entry graduate programs, graduate with my masters degree in nursing, will I still be required to earn a bachelor's in nursing, even though I would have a masters in nursing in addition to an bachelor's in another field? That would be crazy. I would hope that having the masters obviates the need to earn another bachelor's degree.
  8. by   hogan4736
    Quote from Jailhouse RN
    It will not come to pass. BSN programs are lacking in hands on. They center on menagement.....We have enough of them already.....
    You have no idea what you're talking about...

    I have been a clinical instructor for an ADN and BSN programs...

    Each state's BON mandates the # of clinical hours for ANY RN program...

    The only difference in clinical curriculums, was in 5th semester, my BSN students took a "leadership and management" class...They had a 12 hour/week clinical w/ this, where they eventually "took" the entire RN assignment, while the RN supervised...

    Stop the ignorance...There is NO clinical difference between the 2 programs...
  9. by   Lacie
    Quote from Jailhouse RN
    It will not come to pass. BSN programs are lacking in hands on. They center on menagement.....We have enough of them already.....
    And how do BSN programs lack hands on? Besides 2 years of classes we also had more than 2 years of clinical. At least mine did 8 hours 4 days a week on various shifts in hospitals to include CC units and this was in addition to our theory classes. No they dont just center on Mgm. I agree that to many professions today require at least an MSN and I do feel if we want to fall into the group we should require at least an BSN and no less then an MSN to teach but again yes it would result in critical shortages that just couldnt be managable.
    Last edit by Lacie on Dec 24, '06 : Reason: typo
  10. by   angel o' mercy
    Personally, In my eyes, the differance between a two year degree and a four year degree is a bunch of extra classes, alot more money and two more years before you can work on the floor. Now if your goal is to teach or specialize,great!! You need your BSN, but does that make you a better nurse than someone with a two year degree. Its not the degree that you hold, but the skills you have learned and apply, that make you a good nurse. My first preceptor told me something that I will never forget. Nursing school CANNOT remotely prepare you for what to expect when you first step foot on the floor as a new nurse whether a ADN or BSN, we all go throught the same orientation and training once you start working.
    I went to a community college in the Philadelphia suburbs that hails an NCLEX pass rate higher than several of the four year programs in the same area. It was a very, very intense program and I was told at multiple interviews how my comm college nurse grads are sometimes highered over BSN grads applying for the same jobs just because they know how are program had a 93% first time NCLEX pass rate and they know of the schools rep for turning out quality nurses.. How do you explain a BSN program with a NCLEX pass rate in the 70s or below??.
    But its not always about the degree, it has alot to do with the person .In an ADN program, the focus is strictly on nursing and pretty much anything that will relate to nursing. Like the previous post had mentioned, how are calculus and statistics going to really help you at the bedside?
    It pretty much boils down to one thing, some people need their egos stroked and it makes them feel better to feel like they are superior to someone who maybe chose nursing as a second career due to job loss or lay off due to their job now being sent over seas. Or maybe whose spouse died and needed a career quick to support their children.
    Anyone who is a working nurse knows that unless you specialize, or supervise, BSN or ADN, on the floor we all do the same job. No one is given more complex patients on the floor or put on a pedestal just because they have their BSN. WE ALL DO THE SAME JOB, and to all you BSN students, we start out making the same amount of money as you.
    At my hospital we dont emphasize what degree each nurse holds. We are all RNs. Our ID badge does not have Jane Doe, RN. ADN,BSN,MSN,CCRN blah blah blah yada yada . We are all equals not to mention a magnet hospital. I am just disgusted with all of the back and forth venom between ADNs and BSNs. This battle has got to stop. It seems that the ones with the problem are the BSNs who feel they need the glory of a four year degree to make themselves seem more important. Just get whatever degree you want , do your job, retire some day and hopefully enjoy the fruits of your labor. When you die and are judged someday, God does not look at what degree you held. He looks at all of us as equals. Your degree is not going to get you a fluffier cloud or a shinier harp than someone with a LPN, diploma or ADN. We hopefully all got into nursing for the same reason. To care for the sick and dying and to practice with integrity. We are after all doing the Lords work.
    I am sorry if I offended anyone, but if you sit back and look at the big picture, whats the point in arguing over this topic?
  11. by   Gromit
    No, God doesn't care what degree you held. But it is MY understanding that those of us who are bikers will get a special area all our own -one with perpetually winding roads, low traffic, bottomless fuel tanks and perpetually clear weather. Rest stops will have beer taps and clean mugs to use, and the nights will be bug-free and tranquil.

    Hey, its MY idea of heaven so I'll have it MY way!
  12. by   nsgmjr
    This is exactly why nurses are not treated seriously and the medical profession is able to control the wages and limit the autonomy of nurses. If we can't even make mature choices when dealing with other nurses who would expect us to make them with our patients. We know better but we still do it. We have done this to ourselves. We do not stick together we rely on petty backstabing and resort to the antics of adolescents when dealing with each other. I myself currently am working on my bachelors degree and would have to disagree about the management being the most important thing we don't even delve into this until the last semester. We are taught the same as ADN"s and are required to do clinicals the same as everyone else. It really makes me wonder about the poeple who become nurses when i visit this site. We are suppose to be compassionate and caring people and yet backbite our own. It is no wonder there is a shortage of nurses and that we have been kept in our places by the medical community. we will never be seen as professionals as long as we are pitted against each other and continue to remain divided. I really don't care if you are a ADN or BSN we are all nurses or working on becoming a nurse and face the same obstacles and difficulties. This site while useful depresses me when i realize how many people in the profession are petty and vindictive and just waiting to make someone else feel less worthy. What does that mean for the patients who are being taken care of by these nurses? Perhaps we really don't want to know.
  13. by   marilynmom
    Quote from hogan4736
    You have no idea what you're talking about...

    I have been a clinical instructor for an ADN and BSN programs...

    Each state's BON mandates the # of clinical hours for ANY RN program...

    The only difference in clinical curriculums, was in 5th semester, my BSN students took a "leadership and management" class...They had a 12 hour/week clinical w/ this, where they eventually "took" the entire RN assignment, while the RN supervised...

    Stop the ignorance...There is NO clinical difference between the 2 programs...
    Thank you! Some people are so ignorant and it is a huge myth about ADNs getting more clinical hours than BSN program, and it is a myth that is forever ongoing on allnurses. We are also not loaded down with management classes, yes I do take Leadership our senior year---what the hell is wrong with that? God forbid we might have some extra classes to take! LOL More education is always a good thing. God forbid nurses might take Leadership, etc type classes, we wouldn't want that would we?

    Where I live, every single nursing program gets the same clinical hours. Your clinical hours are determined NOT by the school, but by the BON and it is standard. We all start with 12 hours a week for exactly 16 weeks the first year, then we go to 24 hours for exactly 16 weeks our senior year. My school also has us do 40-60 hours of nursing related volunteer work in order to graduate (this is through our leadership class--lots of hands on stuff there as well). That is not counting our preceptor clinical hours in our senior year.

    I'm in a BSN program. I work at the exact same hospitals, doing the exact same clinical hours as all the other ADN and BSN programs here do. There is no difference whatsoever in any of that.
    Last edit by marilynmom on Jan 3, '07

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