NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees - page 30

But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse. New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN... Read More

  1. by   zenman
    Quote from DusktilDawn
    It will also take more than standardizing the entry level to change a lot of what is wrong in the nursing profession.
    True, but wouldn't it be great to have this one thing behind us and working on the others.
  2. by   DusktilDawn
    Quote from zenman
    True, but wouldn't it be great to have this one thing behind us and working on the others.
    I think it would be wiser to have a few things taken care of first before that move. Be careful when one hands you a rope, it may be the one you hang yourself with.

    Right now, in this time and place, I don't think it would be wise, unless of course you want 1BSN RN to 40 (or so) patients with a lot of UAPs. That "nurse" taking care of your loved one may not be a nurse. Timing will be everything for our patients. If you don't have an RN at that bedside, whether Diploma, ADN, or BSN, they will be of little use to the patients they are trained to provide care for.

    Hospitals right now have no incentive to retain nurses, period. Until they do, not much of anything will change. Right now, you do have Diploma and ADNs that have met a basic educational requirement and standard for licensing, they can and do provide quality care. We can argue all we want about who provides better beside care, it's a moot point, since how an RN delivers care will be up to that individual RN.
  3. by   lindarn
    Quote from DusktilDawn
    I think it would be wiser to have a few things taken care of first before that move. Be careful when one hands you a rope, it may be the one you hang yourself with.

    Right now, in this time and place, I don't think it would be wise, unless of course you want 1BSN RN to 40 (or so) patients with a lot of UAPs. That "nurse" taking care of your loved one may not be a nurse. Timing will be everything for our patients. If you don't have an RN at that bedside, whether Diploma, ADN, or BSN, they will be of little use to the patients they are trained to provide care for.

    Hospitals right now have no incentive to retain nurses, period. Until they do, not much of anything will change. Right now, you do have Diploma and ADNs that have met a basic educational requirement and standard for licensing, they can and do provide quality care. We can argue all we want about who provides better beside care, it's a moot point, since how an RN delivers care will be up to that individual RN.
    Hospitals will never have an incentive to retain nurses, until "ABC Community College", and "St. Elsewhere Hospital School of Nursing", quit churning out new suckers, (aka new grads), every 6 months. It is in their best interests to push out the more expensive older, more experienced nurses, (who complain about short staffing, and unsafe working cnditions), and bring in new ones for making $5 an hour less.

    A BSN would slow the pipeline, forcing hospitals to bend over backwards to make the older nurses stay. There are over 500, 000 experienced nurses in this country not working in nursing. If on fifth of them came back to work at bedside nursing, there would be a glut. Also, staffing ratios (which include only RNs in the ratios), would prevent the jobs going to LPN/LVNs, and UAPs.
    JMHO and NY $0.02.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    Last edit by lindarn on Apr 4, '06
  4. by   macspuds
    Most 4 year RNs were what we used to call "desk nurses". Those were thenew graduates.
    Then there were the "seasoned" ones who had been at it a while.
    The ones who were in it just for the paycheck, such as it was, were the ones who were the desk nurses.
    Then those of us who were the care takers and hands on Nurses were the ones out on the floor working with the CNAs!
    Nursing is a team effort, but sadly some of the the ones with all the degrees seem to stay at the desk area.Most new Nurses could be mentored by some of the dedicated CNAs and learn quite a bit.
    In my mind, degree doesn't mean practical knowledge.
    We are short enough already. 4 year degrees are nice, but experience could be just as important as time spent at a desk.
    I think that if Nurses spent more of their time at seminars that are offered around the country, this important knowledge could be obtained.
    NY State requires very little in cont. ed needs before renewal. Some of the other states have it right in their requirements.
    Those opting to attend could in turn share this info with others.
    macspuds30
  5. by   baambi1
    At one time in NY there were only 4 year programs and they were held at teaching hospitals. The nurses had dorms and they did not have a choice of living off the property. If a major disaster or serious accident happened, the students were pulled into the hospital to work. Latin in high school was a pre-rec. The hospitals slowly dropped this RN program and the AAS 2 year degree started in the community colleges. This was a particularly difficult course, not for the students but for the graduates when they went in to practice and had so little clinical. Remember colleges have summers off and weekends etc. There was a lot of book learning and case studies, but as we all know there are few perfect cases.

    We all know that after a couple of years working in the hospital, we all know about the same clinical information. Leave it to NY. The hospitals are so understaffed that a 1-10 ratio is not uncommon.
  6. by   drinkwd40
    Let's get realistic. How difficult is it to get a BSN once you've got your ADN? Many can do it completely on-line and at state universities where the cost is reasonable and the time spent is too. No one wants to be forced out of a profession they already feel they are a part of, so I can see the fuel for the argument. It just lacks substance. Don't you think that in 10 years all current ADN's (or students for that matter) could get their bachelor's? It's not like we are so underpaid that we couldn't afford the education to advance our profession.
  7. by   irishnurse67
    Quote from drinkwd40
    Let's get realistic. How difficult is it to get a BSN once you've got your ADN? Many can do it completely on-line and at state universities where the cost is reasonable and the time spent is too. No one wants to be forced out of a profession they already feel they are a part of, so I can see the fuel for the argument. It just lacks substance. Don't you think that in 10 years all current ADN's (or students for that matter) could get their bachelor's? It's not like we are so underpaid that we couldn't afford the education to advance our profession.
    Okay, I'll get realistic. It can be VERY difficult to get your BSN after your ADN. Getting it on-line is very expensive and it's not cheap at state universities, either. True, if you don't rush, the time spent isn't so bad. However, it is hard when you work over time each week so that your bills won't be late AND you do volunteer work AND you have kids. That's not to say I'm not in school for my BSN right now, I am. I'm just saying that I find it very difficult!
  8. by   RN34TX
    Quote from drinkwd40
    Let's get realistic. How difficult is it to get a BSN once you've got your ADN? Many can do it completely on-line and at state universities where the cost is reasonable and the time spent is too. No one wants to be forced out of a profession they already feel they are a part of, so I can see the fuel for the argument. It just lacks substance. Don't you think that in 10 years all current ADN's (or students for that matter) could get their bachelor's? It's not like we are so underpaid that we couldn't afford the education to advance our profession.
    I agree that getting a BSN if you are already an RN is more accessible than it has ever been due to the explosion of online and other flexible options.

    But even under the best of circumstances it is not always possible for all.
    My situation is probably under the best of circumstances and I truely have no excuse to not get my BSN, so I'm doing it.
    I have no kids, my employer pays all tuition, fees and books up front, no reimbursement to fool around with so I never see a bill from the school.
    In addition, my employer schedules my work around my school schedule and actually pays me time off 24 hours for each class I take per semester.

    Despite these luxuries that I have that many others wanting a BSN do not have, I still find it a struggle at times. I've put in many hours this semester of school work and I really don't know how people who have young children could do it while still working.
    I just don't think that a BSN is completely within reach of all equally to be able to mandate such a requirement.

    I'm also puzzled as to how this is going to affect NY LPN's.
    Will it affect them at all?
    Are they going to be eliminated in NY?
    I have not seen that addressed on their website so if anyone knows, please enlighten me.
  9. by   NephroBSN
    Quote from RN34TX
    I agree that getting a BSN if you are already an RN is more accessible than it has ever been due to the explosion of online and other flexible options.

    But even under the best of circumstances it is not always possible for all.
    My situation is probably under the best of circumstances and I truely have no excuse to not get my BSN, so I'm doing it.
    I have no kids, my employer pays all tuition, fees and books up front, no reimbursement to fool around with so I never see a bill from the school.
    In addition, my employer schedules my work around my school schedule and actually pays me time off 24 hours for each class I take per semester.

    Despite these luxuries that I have that many others wanting a BSN do not have, I still find it a struggle at times. I've put in many hours this semester of school work and I really don't know how people who have young children could do it while still working.
    I just don't think that a BSN is completely within reach of all equally to be able to mandate such a requirement.

    I'm also puzzled as to how this is going to affect NY LPN's.
    Will it affect them at all?
    Are they going to be eliminated in NY?
    I have not seen that addressed on their website so if anyone knows, please enlighten me.
    I was s/p DVT with a 16 year old son when I finished my BSN.. I also got my minor in Poly Sci. Just so I could be a fulltime student and get student loans.

    When I was talking pre reqs. I worked 4 ten hour days in a dialysis unit and two 12's nights on a M/S unit as an LPN. And that summer I took Chem, Nutrition, and Patho. Every other Sat I worked at the dialysis unit 0700-1730 went home changed and went to the hospital for my 12 hour nights.

    I was a single mom. It can be done. Ya just gotta wanna..

    Did I want to be an RN..NOPE .. I loved being an LPN . I liked having someone to consult and fall back on .. Am I glad I did it. You betcha.

    Good luck.
  10. by   dthfytr
    What problem are they trying to fix by requiring a BSN? Would they pay for it? It seems they'll just make the nursing shortage worse in NY, but lessen the shortage in surrounding states. Whomever came up with this one needs to pull their head out of their asterisks.
  11. by   mchrisrn
    Its great and amazing that you did that..I mean got your bsn, however, I am 50 yrs old..two kids in college with tuition very high, one is done now. We get 500 dollars a year tuition re-imbursement. I have parents and a mother-in-law who need help and have many medical issues. It would cost me 20000-40000 dollars for my bsn degree depending on the college. I DONT make that much money as I choose to be part time at the hospital b/c it is so stressful. I work prn at a GI lab also. You say ya gotta want it. But I DONT want it....and I dont want to pay that much money when I'm already paying two tuitions, and I dont want to spend more time with medicine and nursing. There are other things in life. I have neices, nephews, my own kids, my husband who I want to spend time with. Its great that you work 4 10 hour shifts, 2 12 hour shifts ..but truly, if I worked 10 hours at a dialysis center then 12 hours at a hospital, I would not feel safe at my hospital with the assignments we have and it wouldnt be worth me making an error or omission and harming a patient while trying to "higher my education". Im not saying its not do-able..and if my institution payed for more of it, and if and if...then maybe. But I dont feel I NEED it and hope to retire in 12 more years so I'm not sure by the time I finished, if it would even be worth all the work, time and money!! I'm not against bsn for entry but only if those who are already RN's are grandfathered. I take many continuing ed courses, read many current nursing journals, keep up my ACLS, and I dont feel a college degree would be necessary for my work. It WOULD be nice to get a job AWAY from the bedside in this day and age but when I went to nursing school, BSN's were more for management positions and I WANTED to be at the bedside with the patient. IF I could have seen the future in a crystal ball...I would have certainly chose differently!!
  12. by   sydylo
    NephroBSN,
    While you should feel proud of yourself for all the hardwork you have done, I know it would be beyond me, when did you get to spend time with your son? Just curious who was taking care of him.
  13. by   RN34TX
    Quote from NephroBSN
    I was s/p DVT with a 16 year old son when I finished my BSN.. I also got my minor in Poly Sci. Just so I could be a fulltime student and get student loans.

    When I was talking pre reqs. I worked 4 ten hour days in a dialysis unit and two 12's nights on a M/S unit as an LPN. And that summer I took Chem, Nutrition, and Patho. Every other Sat I worked at the dialysis unit 0700-1730 went home changed and went to the hospital for my 12 hour nights.

    I was a single mom. It can be done. Ya just gotta wanna..

    Did I want to be an RN..NOPE .. I loved being an LPN . I liked having someone to consult and fall back on .. Am I glad I did it. You betcha.

    Good luck.
    That's great that you can juggle so much.
    The only way your schedule would be possible for me, even without a child to care for, would be if I were one of those people who can go to class and then take the test without hardly ever studying and opening the book.

    Those people are out there and you may be one of them.
    Nonetheless, that's an unhealthy and unrealistic expectation of anyone, no matter how much you "wanna" move up and succeed.

    4 ten hour days on a dialysis unit and two 12's on med/surg?
    That's 54 hours per week of work. And on top of that you took classes during summer session like chem and patho. (And you had a kid to raise.)
    Very challenging courses even for the most gifted and brilliant of us nurses.

    I took chem during the summer and had to drop it and start again in the fall due to it's accelerated time frame during the summer and my apparant lack of ability to balance chemical equations.

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