NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees - page 17

But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse. New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN... Read More

  1. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from Susy K
    YES!
    As "professional" nurses, rather than rolling our eyes and then pointing to someone's degree as being inferior, we should be teaching and mentoring. GNs are not robots who are "malfunctioning" when they can't list off anatomical parts correctly who then should be sent back to the manufacturer for repair for cripe's sake. And that's how some of these posts sounds; the robot malfunctioned and the factory that assembled them screwed up. Jeez.
    I totally agree. And I agree, standardized entry would be ideal. I refuse to get into the silly generalizations that BSNs are all clinically inadequate and ADN's are superior. That is just plain ignorant and without any solid basis.

    I will say, What I hope is a lot of thought is given to the process and perhaps we mirror how Canada has handled it BEFORE this comes to pass. Also, grandfathering in RN's already in practice is adviseable and wise. I won't argue access with you any longer Suzy, because we disagree. But I think Canada at least appears to have the solution to my concerns, as I see them.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on May 12, '04
  2. by   studentrn621
    Quote from jmp
    well said. when a resident has a question or not sure how to do something- docs rally round and show-teach-help. it is seen as part of professional responsiblity. nurses can and should do the same.
    i agree. we should work together instead of tearing each other down.
  3. by   cenote
    Has anyone investigated the requirements to go from ADN to BSN? In my opinion it is the idiotic myriad of "dumb" courses required by many programs that discourage ADNs from advancing to a BSN.

    As someone with a college degree in a non-science field who wants to get their BSN, I am offended by the requirements. I'll be specific here. Many ask you to take Speech, Arts, Computer 101, BioChemistry (Chem. 101 will not do), Nutrition (had this all thru the Associates courses), etc., etc. They then throw a few really lame nursing courses. (Anything to stretch out your time with them and increase your costs). Many require courses that are not required for the original BSN.

    Personally, had I taken the BSN program here, since with my previous degree I have taken many of the pre requisites, it would have added just one year to my schooling. But being financially strapped and planning to work while I get my BSN, I chose the Associates degree. NOW, IF I WANT TO GET IT AFTER I COMPLETE MY ASSOCIATES, IT WILL TAKE ONE AND ONE HALF YEARS.

    MAKE ANY SENSE TO ANYONE????????????

    To understand the motivation behind most of the "required" non-nursing curriculum and the wimpy nursing courses, I asked on of my instructors who smiled and said, "The longer they can keep you in school, the more money they can get from you." The greatest offenders are the on-line programs. The owners of these schools are well aware that they can add some nonsensical courses that add to the costs and nurses will just go along due to the convenience of home study.

    What may be needed to spur on the ADN to get their BSN, is a universal curriculum that makes sense. This would go a long way in encouraging further education. Simply stop the fleecing of the ADNs and set some needed standards.

    Too easy to implement. Makes too much sense. Will probably never happen.
  4. by   JMP
    Quote from cenote
    Has anyone investigated the requirements to go from ADN to BSN? In my opinion it is the idiotic myriad of "dumb" courses required by many programs that discourage ADNs from advancing to a BSN.

    As someone with a college degree in a non-science field who wants to get their BSN, I am offended by the requirements. I'll be specific here. Many ask you to take Speech, Arts, Computer 101, BioChemistry (Chem. 101 will not do), Nutrition (had this all thru the Associates courses), etc., etc. They then throw a few really lame nursing courses. (Anything to stretch out your time with them and increase your costs). Many require courses that are not required for the original BSN.

    Personally, had I taken the BSN program here, since with my previous degree I have taken many of the pre requisites, it would have added just one year to my schooling. But being financially strapped and planning to work while I get my BSN, I chose the Associates degree. NOW, IF I WANT TO GET IT AFTER I COMPLETE MY ASSOCIATES, IT WILL TAKE ONE AND ONE HALF YEARS.

    MAKE ANY SENSE TO ANYONE????????????

    To understand the motivation behind most of the "required" non-nursing curriculum and the wimpy nursing courses, I asked on of my instructors who smiled and said, "The longer they can keep you in school, the more money they can get from you." The greatest offenders are the on-line programs. The owners of these schools are well aware that they can add some nonsensical courses that add to the costs and nurses will just go along due to the convenience of home study.

    What may be needed to spur on the ADN to get their BSN, is a universal curriculum that makes sense. This would go a long way in encouraging further education. Simply stop the fleecing of the ADNs and set some needed standards.

    Too easy to implement. Makes too much sense. Will probably never happen.
    I am finishing my degree through the University of Victoria in British Colombia, Canada. I have some American classmates. The courses are ALL NURSING related. I am in Ontario----long way away from BC----but it is a great way to finish the BSN- in my opinion.
  5. by   LadyT618
    Can I just say something here that I've observed......Canada got their s*** together; maybe the US should take some pointers.
  6. by   cenote
    Quote from JMP
    I am finishing my degree through the University of Victoria in British Colombia, Canada. I have some American classmates. The courses are ALL NURSING related. I am in Ontario----long way away from BC----but it is a great way to finish the BSN- in my opinion.
    Thank you for the information. I will investigate this now! Is this school accredited in the US?
  7. by   mattsmom81
    At 300 dollars a credit hour how many can afford to go this route?? (online courses are expensive) If its worth it to some of ya'll, go there by all means. HUGE $$$ grab IMO. Jumping through hoops....DEFINITELY!!!

    When those of you pursuing the BSN from a diploma or AD get there, instead of acting superior because you have a piece of paper 'saying' you are, hope you respectful of nurses in general.... others who cannot or choose not to take the time and $$ to do the same, but are still the good nurses you worked with for years, out there doing the job instead of seeking 'higher education'. For me it simply is not worth it to pursue the BSN. Personal decision. I'M OK with that.

    There's something to this idea of oppressed people desperately seeking validation. Kind of pitiful IMO. I feel OK just the way I am. Not saying education isn't important, but there are lots of different ways of educating...the university isn't the be-all end-all. Some here haven't heard of CEU's or certification either I guess, which are both viable forms of 'education' to those who are not on a 'BSN is the only way' soapbox.

    To some BSN proponents, (and I've heard them talking for 30 yrs now) the people don't really matter. The mandating of the BSN and forcing nurses to comply...well, the end justifies the means for them. <sigh>
  8. by   JMP
    Quote from cenote
    Thank you for the information. I will investigate this now! Is this school accredited in the US?
    I don't know, certainly it is a well respected University. As is UBC (University of British Colombia) both have great nursing programs. I looked at every program in Canada and chose U of Victoria for its program, cost and nursing content. It is certainly accredited in Canada and I have classmates from different US states. Good luck.
  9. by   fergus51
    Quote from JMP
    I don't know, certainly it is a well respected University. As is UBC (University of British Colombia) both have great nursing programs. I looked at every program in Canada and chose U of Victoria for its program, cost and nursing content. It is certainly accredited in Canada and I have classmates from different US states. Good luck.
    My nursing degree was through the same program and it was good enough for me to work in the US.
  10. by   LadyT618
    EXTRA!! EXTRA!! Read all about it!! The wheels are turning now......(ain't I a stinker!)

    http://www.nysna.org/departments/com...initiative.htm
  11. by   JMP
    Quote from LadyT618
    EXTRA!! EXTRA!! Read all about it!! The wheels are turning now......(ain't I a stinker!)

    http://www.nysna.org/departments/com...initiative.htm
    Reading this I can see why nurses would be upset and resent it. It talks about mandating that all RN's obtain their degree within ten years.....they are not doing that here..........BSN only applies to new grads as of 2005. Everyone else is grandfathered in.
  12. by   Erin RN
    So basically there would still be ADNs/ Diplomas and BSNs.. the entry to begin practice would remain the same as it is now only those that graduate after the initiative passed would have to go on and get their BSN within the 10 year time frame? I guess now I am really confused..apparently ADNs and Diploma RNs will be considered RNs for 10 years and then if they have not completed the BSN they are "inactive" as RNs and can work as LPNs. The different degrees will still be existence, I don't see how this is going to lend us a more professional image. It will also keep the ADN / Diploma vs BSN division going. Even though I still do not agree with it, if they are going to implement it for professional reasons seems like they should make BSN the entry level standard otherwise I don't see much benefit to the profession ..of course there is the monetary benefit to the universities, I suppose.
  13. by   SmilingBluEyes
    See????? already so little real thought going into it.....

    this is bound to cause some outrage among the ranks........relegate RN's w/o BSN within 10 years to LPN status................niiiiice.

    And now you see why I am so concerned, I hope. They will make it happen, but will NOT make it happen in a way that is smart.

    ANY NYNSA MEMBERS HERE???? weigh in please?????? If this bothers you, you better get really vocal about it or the powers that be are sealing your fates as diploma/AD graduates.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on May 12, '04

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