higher pay for BSN grads? - page 8

Quick poll here... Does your hospital pay BSN nurses more? If yes, how much? If no, what are your thoughts on this? On a side note: Does Magnet status tie into BSN nurses?... Read More

  1. by   subee
    Quote from RainDreamer
    Unimpressed? Well new grads really aren't there to impress anyone, they're there to learn and start their nursing careers. Less than adequate nurses? Well of course, they have never been a nurse before. We just learn the basics in school, and when we start as new grads we begin the real learning .... on the job training, it's how we all start out, right?


    So frustrating when you have to acticulate the obvious. $.40/hr. more. I know I was just adequate 30 something years ago when I just graduated but I sure knew where to look it up.
  2. by   lindarn
    Quote from ZASHAGALKA
    This is just untrue. We don't all have the same skills, and we shouldn't all get the same pay.

    I've been an RN for 13 yrs. I make MUCH more than a new grad - and I deserve it. My skill set simply far surpasses 'minimum entry'.

    We pay different people to do the same jobs in most every profession across the board, depending upon skill set. And however you gain those extra skills, be it through experience or education: it deserves to be rewarded.

    If I walked into a job and they offered me starting out of school RN salary: I'd laugh in their face. BSNs should do the same when offered ADN salary for commensurate experience.

    IF BSNs did just that, there wouldn't be an ADN/BSN debate. With a real incentive to do so, the education mix would rapidly begin to change. But, that would benefit ADNs as well. As those ADNs 'capped' out their salaries, as most of us eventually do, it would provide an avenue to 'break the cap'.

    More pay for education would be a win-win for all nurses. I've said this many times on this board: you want me to go get a BSN - then give me a real reason to do so.

    ~faith,
    Timothy, ADN.
    I have said it a thousand times, and I will say it again. The reason that hospitals don't pay BSNs a higher wage, is because if they did, nurses would flock to get their BSNs. They would demand higher pay, and that is exactly what the hospitals don't want to do. It would also unify us, and remove a source of contention among us. Hospitals are a big believer in "divide and conquer", and nurses are stupid and naive enough to buy it hook, line, and sinker.

    They fail to grasp the devous reasons behind what the hospitals are doing. It is internalized by the ADNs and Diploma grads, and made personal. They make it a personal attack on their self worth and self esteem. Everytime they refuse to fight for a higher rate of pay for BSNs, (and I don't mean $.25), you play right into thier hands. And continue the problems and divisions in nursing.

    It will never stop until entry into practice is elevated to a BSN with the pay increase that accompanies it. The ADNs and Diplomas should be grandfathered in so they don't have to go back to school to earn the degree if they don't want to. LPN/LVNs should be fit into this somewhere, but they should become RNs.

    Hospitals can make it easier by offering on site BSN programs for employees, like they did for Pharmacists who wanted to get the Doctorate but worked full time. They have this at Long Beach Memorial Hospital in Southeren California, and are also paying for Masters Degrees with an agreement to work at the hospital for two more years. IT CAN BE DONE!!

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
  3. by   tntrn
    OTOH, if all nurses are BSN's there is still an entry level rate of pay, and there's nothing keeping hospitals from making it low. Entry level is entry level: you're still inexperienced.
  4. by   jjjoy
    Quote from tntrn
    OTOH, if all nurses are BSN's there is still an entry level rate of pay, and there's nothing keeping hospitals from making it low. Entry level is entry level: you're still inexperienced.
    Absolutely! It's entirely fair for a newbie BSN to make less than someone experienced. However, why not have a financial reward for any RNs who earn their BSNs?

    A bachelor's degree is socially recognized as an indicator of higher education. People who earn bachelor's degrees aren't smarter or anything like that. But they have been to exposed to the type of academic work that usually constitutes a bachelor's degree. The degree simply lets others know that that nurse has studied at a university level in addition to learning nursing skills. Would that be a bad thing? To get into most other medical fields you first need to earn a bachelor's before even applying. And we know that it's not like nurses have less responsibility or don't need to know as much as other health personnel.
  5. by   lindarn
    Quote from tntrn
    OTOH, if all nurses are BSN's there is still an entry level rate of pay, and there's nothing keeping hospitals from making it low. Entry level is entry level: you're still inexperienced.
    I would include in a BSN program the concepts of Independant Contracting, and bargainling for higher wages. Nurses should be taught what their skills are worth in the workplace, and that they should bemaking comparable to an Occupational Therapist as a starting salary. No one ever tells nurses what they are worth while they are in school, and that is one of the reasons that nurses settle for the HS dropout wages that they do.

    I would think if nurses were taught what their skills are worth, they will negotiate for a higher starting salary. A BSN entry into practice would also lessen the sheer numbers of nurses graduating, and market forces would increase the pay for nurses. That, by the way, was part of the thinking when PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, increased their educational levels. Less of them = more money to obtain their services. They actually take business classes as part of their curriclum.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
  6. by   BeHappy!
    Nope, the pay is the same for ADN and BSN at both hospitals where I have worked.
  7. by   srna2008
    I recently graduated with my BSN and where I work BSN get $1 more per hour.
  8. by   gerry79
    A new graduate be it a Diploma, ADN, or BSN is an inexperience nurse so the pay should be the same. Management level positions should require more education along with the experience. Many complain about the Diploma/ADN/BSN entry to nursing but the bottom line is that the NCLEX cares not what degree you carry, if you cant pass the test you wont be an RN. Why is there not an NCLEX BSN, NCLEX ADN, or NCLEX Diploma exam. There is but one exam and those that graduate from an approved school are eligible to take the exam and become an RN.
    Last edit by gerry79 on Feb 19, '07
  9. by   GIRN
    edited
    Last edit by GIRN on May 25, '07
  10. by   Sheri257
    Quote from lindarn
    A BSN entry into practice would also lessen the sheer numbers of nurses graduating, and market forces would increase the pay for nurses. That, by the way, was part of the thinking when PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, increased their educational levels. Less of them = more money to obtain their services.
    This would be true in theory but, not necessarily in reality.

    OT's for example required a bachelor's until this year where they now require a master's yet ... they only make $2K on average more than RN's nationwide. If a bachelor's, in an of itself, made that much of a difference you'd think the pay difference would be a lot more.

    Same with PT's, who require a masters and make about $7K more a year than RN's but, for a master's degree it's not that much of an increase when you consider that CRNA's make a hellava lot more than that with their masters.

    In California RN's make exactly the same as OT's and PT's, on average, so the bachelor's and master's makes absolutely no difference there ... probably because California has nursing unions that have increased wages for bedside RN's.

    Meanwhile dieticians and medical social workers who require a bachelor's make at least $10K less than RN's nationwide while RT's, who have about the same level of education as ADN RN's also make about $10K less.

    Even though pharmacists require a doctorate, and they do make more than RN's, OT's, PT's, RT's etc. their pay is actually quite low in comparison with other doctorates like dentists and MD's.

    MD pay can also vary widely by specialty ... even though most them have pretty much have the same level of docorate education.

    Bottom Line: a certain kind of degree, in and of itself, does not always guarantee higher wages.

    :typing
    Last edit by Sheri257 on Feb 20, '07
  11. by   MuddaMia
    Quote from lizz
    This would be true in theory but, not necessarily in reality.

    OT's for example required a bachelor's until this year where they now require a master's yet ... they only make $2K on average more than RN's nationwide. If a bachelor's, in an of itself, made that much of a difference you'd think the pay difference would be a lot more.

    :typing
    Those are all interesting comparisons...but I think what really is meant by the OP (Less of them = more money to obtain their services) is the difference WITHIN the profession..not a comparison of degree level across professions. What you would really want to look at is what the average PT salary was before the entry point was changed to MS--did it increase and by how much? When looking at these numbers I am sure you will see a substantial increase--and I think this would cross over to the nursing world if implemented
  12. by   missapoo
    Quote from gerry79
    A new graduate be it a Diploma, ADN, or BSN is an inexperience nurse so the pay should be the same. Management level positions should require more education along with the experience. Many complain about the Diploma/ADN/BSN entry to nursing but the bottom line is that the NCLEX cares not what degree you carry, if you cant pass the test you wont be an RN. Why is there not an NCLEX BSN, NCLEX ADN, or NCLEX Diploma exam. There is but one exam and those that graduate from an approved school are eligible to take the exam and become an RN.
    I would argue that the NCLEX exam is designed to measure your clinical knowledge base and not your ability to be a leader. The difference in my mind is that a BSN gives the basic groundwork toward leadership and management skills and that is, imho why they should be considered with a slightly higher compensation even when starting out fresh out of school. The BSN takes longer to complete and is more involved and in-depth. The same basic nursing training is given and similar clinical experience, but when you go for the BSN you are getting the training you need to go on and become a leader/teacher/manager. In a way, there are much tougher hurdles in the BSN program because not only are you expected to learn to care for your patients, but your are put in the position of making management decisions, solving staffing issues, doing research, ie things that make you think on a more global level. I agree that anyone with initiative can get their BSN but not everyone is born to be a leader. In part that is an in-born thing in our nature, and it is also partly a learned behavior. To compensate or not for the extra training I think is a no-brainer. Most places that are interested in furthering progress should agree that if you do the time you should be compensated. I am sorry for those of you out there where that isn't the case...I thought I was in a pretty backward place until I read most of the posts and saw that I actually have it pretty good where I am (BSN's get 1$ more per hr than ADN's).
  13. by   gerry79
    [QUOTE=melissamward;2077074]I would argue that the NCLEX exam is designed to measure your clinical knowledge base and not your ability to be a leader. The difference in my mind is that a BSN gives the basic groundwork toward leadership and management skills and that is, imho why they should be considered with a slightly higher compensation even when starting out fresh out of school. The BSN takes longer to complete and is more involved and in-depth. The same basic nursing training is given and similar clinical experience, but when you go for the BSN you are getting the training you need to go on and become a leader/teacher/manager.






    Then again I argue why is there not an NCLEX-BSN exam. All new graduate RN's, regardless of there education, are inexperienced nurses and should be paid as such. I am not against higher education but if the nursing profession wanted to change the entry level requirement it would have done so a long time ago. I plan on getting my BSN for personal reasons but I know many ADN and Diploma nurses who are in leadership positions in many facilities. In my opinion the BSN allows entry to advanced practice nursing, it does not make one a better nurse or leader. Additional letters behind one's last name does not make a leader.
    Last edit by gerry79 on Feb 20, '07

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