Education of nurses - page 4

by PCU_RN9 8,157 Views | 65 Comments

Now I know this may upset some but... I think that all nurses should be BSN prepared at minimum, and all LPN, ASN, and diploma programs should be eradicated. My reasoning for this? How many other fields can say they are... Read More


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    We have certainly all heard this conversation before! I'm an ADN nurse, but do plan on going for my BSN mostly because it will make me more marketable. I like the idea of having my BSN, but I'm afraid that if we push for every nurse to have a BSN, many people would not be able to afford it. It seems like a shame to cut out people who would be great nurses because of the financial factor. I don't think I personally would have been financially able to get a BSN degree in the situation I was in. That doesn't mean I don't desire it!!!

    I really don't think one is better than the other. We all study hard, work hard, and care for our patients. Experience is what truly makes the nurse!
    nursel56 and floridanurse1983 like this.
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    Quote from Asystole RN
    No? How many diploma programs are there anymore? What is happening to the masters level NP programs?

    The BSN level of education will be the standard entry level of education for registered nurses in the future, just as the ASN is the standard now.

    The AACN, NCSBN, ANA, NLN and others have already agreed on this subject and have put into motion long term interventions to make the BSN the standard.

    LPNs are a different subject.
    Operative word there is PROGRAMS. OP sounds like she wants to fire all nurses with less than a BSN and take their license away. New programs, whatever, but don't harp on nurses with knowledge. I'm an LPN and and take great offense to that. I know plenty of LPN's that are great nurses and plenty of BSN & MSN nurses who I wouldn't let wipe my ass.
    prettymica, Dezy, steffuturelpn, and 1 other like this.
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    Quote from Asystole RN
    You must admit that the education you received in the 80's is not adequate for what registered nursing has become today. No one wants to eradicate diploma nurses, ASNs, or LPNs. The goal is to change the future standard of education to better prepare students for the future as registered nursing becomes more and more advanced.
    Same could be said about the education I'm receiving now. 20 years it will be also obsolete.
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    Quote from LockportRN
    Ok, yes that is what I meant...thanks for putting it so succinctly for me
    LockportRN likes this.
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    I agree with the op. 30 years ago when in a BSN program, the professors repeated over and over again that "soon" a BSN would be required. It hasn't happened, at least not in most places. The community colleges and private for-profit schools are cranking out a lot of RNs, and we all know that it's pretty difficult to find an entry-level RN position in most of the country.

    Pharmacists used to be master's-prepared, and now a doctorate is required. Same thing for physical therapists. To be an SLP, you must have a masters. I do think that there should be a standard entry-level for RNs, and it should be a BSN. This isn't a slam to AD nurses at all, because they can be just as clinically excellent as a BSN-prepared nurse. But we need to do this for the future of our profession.
    neonurse97, jelly221,RN, and sapphire18 like this.
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    I don't think an ADN says anything about a person. Afterall, I just finished my ADN, however I also hold a BS in biology/animal science. I have had statistics and probably more science than any BSN prepared student. I have performed my own research, and have used all of my previous education towards my ADN. With that being said, I am going straight to a MSN program so I will have an easier time finding jobs later down the road, not because it will increase my clinical abilities and critical thinking skills. My ADN program kicked our butts, and we are better nurses for it.

    You can also go the route of letting students graduate these programs that shouldn't. Many BSN's that work at our hospital only have one patient thier whole entire clinical. I cannot tell you how many I have seen DANGEROUSLY let off of orientation and had no idea (literally no clue) about normal urine or lab levels. Every program lets people graduate that shouldn't in my opinion, whether they are ADN or BSN. What about the age of people graduating and thier maturity factor?? Like another poster said, actually I'll go even further, I'd rather let my 3 year old care for my life than some nurses I've encountered. I honestly think it depends more on the person and their desire to learn and take their responsibilities seriously than where they've graduated from with what degree.
    prettymica, Dezy, jelly221,RN, and 1 other like this.
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    Quote from floridanurse1983
    Same could be said about the education I'm receiving now. 20 years it will be also obsolete.
    I graduated in 1982 from a diploma program one thing we learned quickly was critical thinking skills....a skill that will NEVER be obsolete. We also learned to keep learning throughout our careers. I graduated with the skill to run a unit. I have a Bachelor's degree in English and frankly never saw the point of getting another bachelor degree.I'd put my knowledge,skills, and PROFESSIONALISM up against anyone else's...ADN or BSN.
    prettymica, nursel56, elkpark, and 4 others like this.
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    Quote from Asystole RN
    The BSN level of education goes beyond the clinical education and introduces concepts such as statistics, economics, leadership, research, and the like. These "fluff" classes help to develop you professionally, they allow you to view nursing in a more global manner.
    I learned (and more importantly learned to apply) those concepts in my ADN program.
    Tell me, how does viewing nursing an a more "global" manner enhance bedside nursing?
    Please, give me an practical application of the concept in bedside nursing. My BSN instructors couldn't do it yet it was one of the buzz words/phrases in their glossy program brochure.

    Quote from Asystole RN
    If you received a quality education you should have walked away from the program with some concept of leadership, organizational structure, professional duty, maybe some nursing history, the ability to read a study and understand the statistical significance, and the ability to understand why education is important.
    I walked INTO my BSN program with all of those skills as I had walked OUT of my AND program with them 17 years earlier.

    And since it will probably come up...I graduated from a community college in the Pac NW in 1990 that was no different than any other CC program in the state. My BSN came from a well regarded college, where I graduated with a near 4.0. While it's certainly possible I missed the "point" of my BSN program or attended a less than great school, the multiple MSN programs I've been accepted into make me inclined to disagree.

    I do agree that standardized education and a standardized level of entry needs to be defined but at this point believe that good ADN programs would fill that need more than adequately. There are many professions (and I'm not using the lay term) for which an Associates is entry level. I don't believe making the BSN the standard for entry does anything but create additional financial burden for those who want to enter the field. Placing nursing education out of reach of the 'masses' and limits the supply, thereby creating some job security for already working nurses, then again, perhaps that is the point.
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    That is an interesting point kids...one that I hadn't thought of ...

    "Placing nursing education out of reach of the 'masses' and limits the supply, thereby creating some job security for already working nurses, then again, perhaps that is the point."

    Just because those that would make money from people getting into nursing schools by advertising a current nursing shortage, does not mean that it is true. Though I don't really think that the average nurse has anything to do with pushing this agenda of limiting the supply of nurses, I wonder who may be direct benefits of this? The only ones that seem to benefit would be the schools. I do not believe that an ADN with a few years under her belt does not know any less than a BSN and after paying so much more for their degrees, a BSN doesn't earn all that much more than an ADN. So what is the point?

    It would seem that the average nurse would be better to fight for better ratios that put patients at less risk and their nursing license at less risk than to force this issue. What happens when all these new grads that can't find jobs decide to NOT be a nurse because they can't wait for healthcare facilities to hire. That is when the true nursing shortage will kick in hard...especially when the aging boomers begin to retire enmasse. The schools will have burnt out their credibility with the college age kids to become nurses after a few dozen of their buddies start telling their stories of the years of sacrifice to become a BSN and all the debt they are saddled with while being unable to procure a job to repay these loans. We may just have to go back and allow (or even beg by that time) for kids to go to school to get their LPN or ADN.
    prettymica, nursel56, and Esme12 like this.
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    Quote from LockportRN
    That is an interesting point kids...one that I hadn't thought of ...

    "Placing nursing education out of reach of the 'masses' and limits the supply, thereby creating some job security for already working nurses, then again, perhaps that is the point."

    Just because those that would make money from people getting into nursing schools by advertising a current nursing shortage, does not mean that it is true. Though I don't really think that the average nurse has anything to do with pushing this agenda of limiting the supply of nurses, I wonder who may be direct benefits of this? The only ones that seem to benefit would be the schools. I do not believe that an ADN with a few years under her belt does not know any less than a BSN and after paying so much more for their degrees, a BSN doesn't earn all that much more than an ADN. So what is the point?

    It would seem that the average nurse would be better to fight for better ratios that put patients at less risk and their nursing license at less risk than to force this issue. What happens when all these new grads that can't find jobs decide to NOT be a nurse because they can't wait for healthcare facilities to hire. That is when the true nursing shortage will kick in hard...especially when the aging boomers begin to retire enmasse. The schools will have burnt out their credibility with the college age kids to become nurses after a few dozen of their buddies start telling their stories of the years of sacrifice to become a BSN and all the debt they are saddled with while being unable to procure a job to repay these loans. We may just have to go back and allow (or even beg by that time) for kids to go to school to get their LPN or ADN.
    It's what lead to the last "shortage". Back in the late 80's during the Dot.com crash. All those who rushed into the tech world to make their millions and found themselves jobless.....rushed into nursing. Hospitals laid off jobs were scarce. Eventually they moved on and people stopped going to school to graduate and have no job.

    I do believe this situation is unprecedented as the whole economy is in dire trouble. Never since the Great Depression has there been such economic strife. The masses have folded to the profession, saturated the market, dropped demand. The hospitals can now do as they wish, pay what they wish, and spoil all that we worked fro all these years to make nursing a worthy rpofession....financially. I came out of school making $3.25/hr. but the benefits were great. We were treated respectfully.

    So who is benefiting from this? They very hospitals who want "only" certain graduates now for minimal pay or that your have to pay them for the "intership/residency" to get properly trained.........when they have sobbed to the government about the "nursing crisis" and "something needed to be done" to prevent a catastrophe!!! catastrophe my foot....they wanted to stop they respectable pay that nurses had finally achieved.....who's benefitting now???

    Now it is difficult to get a full time job with any benefits and a pension is essentially non existent......the tide will turn. With the promise of the "big money" all the push has been for these advanced degrees which I believe have been promoted by hospitals and insurance companies to get the same or better services for less money than the MDs....this market will saturate soon as well.......and we will be back at square one. I was told that diploma schools were going to be outlawed when I went to school in 1978, and it hasn't happened yet.

    I agree lockport, this too shall pass......the hole that us boomers will have to leave because nature will take it's course and we will eventually have no choice but to die...... will not be cured by the plethora of nurses now for they will have moved on.........and the cycle begins again...........only time will tell.
    Wile E Coyote and LockportRN like this.


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