Education of nurses - page 2

by PCU_RN9 8,151 Views | 65 Comments

Now I know this may upset some but... I think that all nurses should be BSN prepared at minimum, and all LPN, ASN, and diploma programs should be eradicated. My reasoning for this? How many other fields can say they are... Read More


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    I agree, I think the entry point to registered nursing should be a bachelor's degree. I wish that all 50 state boards of nursing would announce the enactment of this requirement to be effective 5 years from now, to allow for completion of other educational paths already under way. At the enactment date, all existing RNs holding licenses at that time would be grandfathered in.

    Oh, and BTW ... I am that oxymoron known as a 21st-century diploma grad (excellent education!) who later completed a BSN.
    sherri12, SHGR, sauconyrunner, and 1 other like this.
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    Quote from Altra
    I agree, I think the entry point to registered nursing should be a bachelor's degree. I wish that all 50 state boards of nursing would announce the enactment of this requirement to be effective 5 years from now, to allow for completion of other educational paths already under way. At the enactment date, all existing RNs holding licenses at that time would be grandfathered in.

    Oh, and BTW ... I am that oxymoron known as a 21st-century diploma grad (excellent education!) who later completed a BSN.
    Can I ask where you received your diploma? I'm always curious to find out where these facilities are, I think it is actually pretty neat.

    Your idea has been proposed before but the problem is that there currently are not enough BSN programs to put out enough RNs to meet demand. The problem is not that programs do not want to open to meet demand but there simply are not enough instructors nor clinical sites. The NLN maintains statistics on this and they are very interesting.

    If you think about it, you need someone with a great deal of education and experience to adequately train nurses. Those nurses that meet the criteria are worth a ton of money in the non-academic world, it is not easy to recruit someone to take a pay cut.

    Instead of making a hard deadline the powers that be are increasing funding and grants to BSN level programs to help them recruit and develop larger nursing programs. The idea is to make a slow transition using market incentives such as Magnet to increase the demand for BSN nurses and slowly build up the BSN programs to cope. If the plan works well no one will even see the transition, just one day they will looking around and not see any ASN nurses.
    jelly221,RN and lucky_pig like this.
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    There are a ton of diploma schools in pittsburgh pa and surrounding areas.
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    Funny im a new grad lpn going full time in September for my bridge program. I only make 2 bucks more a hr than I did as a tech. Smh u disgusts mw with ur stat. But I bet it's okay when u wants me to anwer questiona about ur mom at the nursing home. Its not gonna happen any time soon get over it hater lmao. Some of the best nurses I know rn bsn were lpns first . Its just a stepping stone.and they all say that the lpn program was way harder than the rn program. Yeah im upset and excuse my typing im on my phone. I know asn and diploma nurses that will run circles around bsn nurses. Lol
    Last edit by traumaRUs on May 20, '12 : Reason: Tos
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    I got the ADN first, then the BSN. I have said it here several times~ I learned far more in the ADN program than the BSN program. The ADN learns everything needed to pass NCLEX and become licensed. The older diploma programs were mostly hospital-based, and those nurses were in the hospital learning stuff every single day. The only thing different in my BSN program was that I had to take a couple more humanities classes, and a research class. It was all fluff, but nothing that enhanced my ability to be a competent RN. Today we have BSN nurses who have never even placed a foley catheter in a real, live patient, or started IV's on them, let alone anything more technical than that. The diploma nurses had to do so much more; they were right there in the hospitals daily, doing foleys, etc., until they were proficient at everything. Don't bash the diploma nurses! Many BSN and ADN nurses get out of school, then have to learn everything "on the job" because they didn't do them in school; this is why you read here how so many new grads expect (and need) six months orientation. I got 5 days!! Yes, eventually everyone will need a BSN, but if you think that will get nursing more respect, more money, etc., you are wrong; it won't. If anything, the role of RN has been "dumbed down." Today you have ancillary personnel that does a lot of what nurses used to do; when I first got out of nursing school, I had to draw my own ABG's and labs, do my own 12-lead EKG's, etc. Now all you have to do is call some other department to do it. Some places even have IV teams that do your IV's for you. Once upon a time, the RN could and would intubate patients. These are diploma and ADN nurses, by the way. A few extra fluff classes does not make you a better RN. The bottom line is that the nurse can only do what the doctor gives an order for. You might know what needs to be done, but you even have to have an MD order to give 02 nasal cannula! There is nothing wrong with being a basic bedside nurse.
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    Quote from applewhitern
    I got the ADN first, then the BSN. I have said it here several times~ I learned far more in the ADN program than the BSN program. The ADN learns everything needed to pass NCLEX and become licensed. The older diploma programs were mostly hospital-based, and those nurses were in the hospital learning stuff every single day. The only thing different in my BSN program was that I had to take a couple more humanities classes, and a research class. It was all fluff, but nothing that enhanced my ability to be a competent RN. Today we have BSN nurses who have never even placed a foley catheter in a real, live patient, or started IV's on them, let alone anything more technical than that. The diploma nurses had to do so much more; they were right there in the hospitals daily, doing foleys, etc., until they were proficient at everything. Don't bash the diploma nurses! Many BSN and ADN nurses get out of school, then have to learn everything "on the job" because they didn't do them in school; this is why you read here how so many new grads expect (and need) six months orientation. I got 5 days!! Yes, eventually everyone will need a BSN, but if you think that will get nursing more respect, more money, etc., you are wrong; it won't. If anything, the role of RN has been "dumbed down." Today you have ancillary personnel that does a lot of what nurses used to do; when I first got out of nursing school, I had to draw my own ABG's and labs, do my own 12-lead EKG's, etc. Now all you have to do is call some other department to do it. Some places even have IV teams that do your IV's for you. Once upon a time, the RN could and would intubate patients. These are diploma and ADN nurses, by the way. A few extra fluff classes does not make you a better RN. The bottom line is that the nurse can only do what the doctor gives an order for. You might know what needs to be done, but you even have to have an MD order to give 02 nasal cannula! There is nothing wrong with being a basic bedside nurse.
    I can understand where you are coming from but unfortunately I think you missed the point of a BSN. What I think most nurses miss is that nursing education is divided into two very distinct areas of study; clinical education and professional development.

    The ASN, or diploma for that matter, is designed to be 98% clinical education. These degrees are designed to build you into a minimally functional clinical nurse. If all that was expected of the professional nurse was to be a straight forward bedside nurse then that would be enough.

    The BSN level of education goes beyond the clinical education and introduces concepts such as statistics, economics, leadership, research, and the like. These "fluff" classes help to develop you professionally, they allow you to view nursing in a more global manner. If you received a quality education you should have walked away from the program with some concept of leadership, organizational structure, professional duty, maybe some nursing history, the ability to read a study and understand the statistical significance, and the ability to understand why education is important.

    Although some tasks in nursing have been refocused and some tasks taken away altogether our overall scope of practice has grown by leaps and bounds. Nursing is moving away somewhat from the generalists but that doesn't mean that tasks are being taken away. In reality nurses are being trained into many different specialties instead. Nurses still do intubate in many states, I still get my own ABGs, and I can get my own 12 lead if I wanted to.

    You might not think that higher educational improves a nurse's performance but the studies prove that it actually does make a difference.
    sherri12, sapphire18, and Shorty11 like this.
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    Quote from Asystole RN
    The ASN, or diploma for that matter, is designed to be 98% clinical education. These degrees are designed to build you into a minimally functional clinical nurse. If all that was expected of the professional nurse was to be a straight forward bedside nurse then that would be enough.
    If you look at curricula of ADN/ASN and diploma programs, does your assertion that they are "98% clinical" hold true?
    grownuprosie likes this.
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    I'm currently an ADN student, and the ADN programs are harder to get into than the BSN programs...also, more of our grads get hired (all 67 of the current graduating class had job contracts signed AT graduation), and are better prepared than a BSN program nurse to hit the floor running - 2 of our local BSN programs are in danger of losing accreditation because of failing NCLEX rates. I already have a bachelors in another concentration, which will allow me to direct entry into an RN to MSN program and skip the crap classes...I don't agree with your assertion that getting a BSN makes a nurse more "professional" or "global"...we are taught from the start that when we graduate we are nursing professionals. Also, my education is NOT 98% clinical experience - it is equal - 8 hours a week in the classroom and 8 hours per week in the hospital. While its a nice goal, I don't feel its necessary...
    jelly221,RN, OCNRN63, lucky_pig, and 1 other like this.
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    I'm going to go on a limb and say RN to BSN programs are vastly different than a traditional BSN schools. My college has 3 years of clinicals and Nursing classes start in the first year. So i would say those are not fluff classes.
    sapphire18 likes this.
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    We ask that posters debate the topic not the poster. Also, although we allow a degree go text speak, it is sometimes difficult to understand.
    pseudomonas, Esme12, and OCNRN63 like this.


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