Education Conspiracy

  1. Does anyone see a huge difference between an ADN and a BSN prepared nurse, nursing skills wise? Very little of my BSN coursework have been utilized on the floor and to be honest, experienced Diploma nurses frequently possessed better skills. Sure, there was management and leadership skills, but unless that is your intent, I cannot see the point.

    Personally, the nurse with desire and curiousity for her craft have always appeared to me better, at not only practical skills but also interpersonal. I acquired more debt but little else.


    Is there collusion between the AACN and learning institutions pushing this agenda? Why is it so few nursing international bodies have adopted very little of this trend?
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  2. 85 Comments

  3. by   Emergent
    I do believe that academia is offering fluff padded coursework that brings in big dollars to their institutions. They are peddling their wares and the necessity of advanced degrees as a requirement in many fields. For example, the growing requirement for a BSN, when an ADN is really just as good. A bachelor's degree has become useless in most fields. One must get a masters in order to actually have the degree mean anything in the job market place. A physical therapist now has to get a PhD in order to practice at a job that pays less than nursing in my area. Previously a master's degree was the standard for that field.

    I think higher education has then dumbed down the curriculum in the misguided notion that everyone should go to a 4-year University no matter what their capability. I think technical and trade schools are not pushed enough in our educational system. My daughters are in University now and say that a lot of kids really don't belong there. They spend a year or two racking up debt and partying, then dropping out. The admission standards at some colleges are too low. This practice devalues a bachelor's degree. So then they have to add on the master's degree in order to sort out the wheat from the chaff. The whole thing has become a racket in my opinion
  4. by   Avid reader
    I posted this because of several other comments re conversions and personal experiences. I have nothing against further education and fell for an MBA incursion myself until I realized that 80% of the students were genuine idiots who will never convert that experience into something productive. Cost me $6,000 but could have been far worse if I hadn't opted out. I do not mean to offend others with further education, kudos to them but some people simply want to be nurses without being pressurized to spend far more money than is necessary.
  5. by   Horseshoe
    Quote from Avid reader
    I posted this because of several other comments re conversions and personal experiences. I have nothing against further education and fell for an MBA incursion myself until I realized that 80% of the students were genuine idiots who will never convert that experience into something productive. Cost me $6,000 but could have been far worse if I hadn't opted out. I do not mean to offend others with further education, kudos to them but some people simply want to be nurses without being pressurized to spend far more money than is necessary.

    There are only about 3,000 other threads about ADN vs. BSN if you really want to go there.
  6. by   Avid reader
    Sorry Horseshoe, woman's prerogative. Always been spoilt and this is something that irritates me especially every month when loans are due. Simply a discussion that's all.
  7. by   Libby1987
    I worked as an extern my last year of my BSN program. I came out with both a technical skill set and a very marketable degree. My ability to apply theory and enjoy promotion might have had more to do with me than having that BSN, hard to say, but I'd be arrogant to credit myself.

    I never resented having a 4 yr degree, at this juncture most of my friends in healthcare hold higher degrees. I'm the undereducated one with a BSN.

    Tasks are relatively easy to learn, I don't know what would hold back a BSN prepared nurse from quickly assimilating them. I can tell you that our ADN hires don't come with significantly more, if any, of a skill set.
    Last edit by Libby1987 on Mar 19
  8. by   Avid reader
    Libby, this is not about people who actually want further education, in fact, I endorse and admire such people. Insightfully educated are generally where most innovation comes from. However, when institutions and organizations appears to have an agenda that enriches by deception, I feel that a discussion maybe necessary.

    I travel quite a bit and I cannot recall another country that pushes this agenda. As a former manager, amongst my peers the skill set was always the interpersonal that appeared to be best suited for management.

    We are all concerned with healthcare costs and I feel hospitals etc are marketing qualifications for profit margins and nurses are paying for their ploys without the commensurate renumeration. I sort of resent the $13,000 and extra year that I had to pay for skills that was never applicable on the floor. I use the spreadsheet and statistics in my everyday business but certainly never during a shift.
  9. by   Libby1987
    Quote from Avid reader
    Libby, this is not about people who actually want further education, in fact, I endorse and admire such people. Insightfully educated are generally where most innovation comes from. However, when institutions and organizations appears to have an agenda that enriches by deception, I feel that a discussion maybe necessary.

    I travel quite a bit and I cannot recall another country that pushes this agenda. As a former manager, amongst my peers the skill set was always the interpersonal that appeared to be best suited for management.

    We are all concerned with healthcare costs and I feel hospitals etc are marketing qualifications for profit margins and nurses are paying for their ploys without the commensurate renumeration. I sort of resent the $13,000 and extra year that I had to pay for skills that was never applicable on the floor. I use the spreadsheet and statistics in my everyday business but certainly never during a shift.
    My perspective may be skewed because I attended and perceived a traditional BSN program as a complete (so to speak) education.

    I can see how an ADN would see it as an expensive unnecessary add on. I went to school for 4 1/2 yrs and secured positions with commensurate pay and that increased with my job experience and additional responsibilities. At the time I griped about the senior classes like everyone else in my program, now I'm glad for them, I'm very comfortable speaking of theory etc with my masters and doctorate prepared colleagues (not that we sit around and quote theorists). I don't know that I would have with strictly a community college or diploma degree. I believe there was value to those *fluff* type of classes that my higher educated friends also completed (and I'm not referring only to nursing) and I just don't feel any resentment nor that there's a conspiracy.

    ETA I'm also skewed by obtaining my BSN 30 years ago. I'm honestly surprised ADN programs still exist. Ideally I believe there should be more comprehensive clinical experience, but not exclusive of theory. It's not the BSN, it's the flooded nursing school market not providing adequate clinical experience.
    Last edit by Libby1987 on Mar 19
  10. by   TheCommuter
    For some context, I started as an LVN before earning an ASN degree. I completed an online BSN a couple of years ago.

    Some nurses perform more optimally than others. However, I do not think it has much to do with their level of educational attainment.

    Factors such as intellectual curiosity, work ethic, desire for lifelong learning, critical thinking, competence, proficiency in procedural skills, solid communication skills, and years of experience all contribute to differences in the way nurses work.
  11. by   TheCommuter
    Quote from Avid reader
    I travel quite a bit and I cannot recall another country that pushes this agenda.
    This is correct...because most other countries already require their RNs to be educated at the baccalaureate (BSN) degree level.

    Thus, in regards to nursing education in other countries, no diploma/ADN/BSN agenda exists for policy-makers to push.
  12. by   Avid reader
    Sorry Commuter, I'll apologize profusely if you could name five such countries that propogates such requirements to practice on the floors as a Reg Nurse ie needing a Bachelor's.
  13. by   oldpsychnurse
    It's called "education inflation" and it's a real thing. Nurses who have 10, 20, 30 years of nursing experience are being forced to get their BSN to continue working at some facilities. It's a sad joke. What other profession if forcing competent employees to go back to school? None. The ANCC is a for-profit organization, and the magnet program (and it's push for certification) is nothing more than a money making scheme that the idiots that run hospitals are falling for. I'm out of nursing now. But if I had been told that I had to get a BSN to continue working, I may have gone back to school to get my bachelors. But it wouldn't have been for nursing.
  14. by   Rose_Queen
    Quote from Avid reader
    Sorry Commuter, I'll apologize profusely if you could name five such countries that propogates such requirements to practice on the floors as a Reg Nurse ie needing a Bachelor's.
    Article from 2009 listing 8 such countries: The Importance of the Baccalaureate Degree in Nursing Education | peoriamagazines.com
    Many countries, like Canada, Sweden, Portugal, Brazil, Iceland, Korea, Greece and the Philippines already require a four-year undergraduate degree to practice nursing.
    And considering the length of time since this article was published, it could be that there are more countries where a bachelors degree is the minimum entry.

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