Dipoma Nurse and Proud! - page 3

I am a graduate of a hospital school of nursing. It was the best. This is not to say that we did not take college courses because we were required to take courses at Northwestern and other area colleges. Then we had clinical... Read More

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    Two of the travel nurses we had were diploma nurses and they were the most awesome nurses I've ever worked with. They didn't seem to be as anxious as other nurses or have to go to others for help as much. And when their patient crashed, they were really on top of it.

    Nothing against ADNs, I'm going for that too. But if I didn't have a wife and kid and the closest diploma program wasn't 4 hours away, I'd go for my diploma.

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    I think the reason some people think BSN is a good way to go is because for many people out there, if they hear that nurses don't need a bachelor's degree that it can't be that hard. The assumption is that if nurses did indeed need to be very smart and that nursing was *that* difficult to master that a nursing jobs would require at least a college degree. The assumption is that if you could, you would've gone to university, but since you couldn't (could afford it, couldn't cut it, weren't that motivated) then maybe you could go into nursing for a decent profession. I'm not saying such assumptions are correct.

    But think about it. What would your *initial* gut reaction be to the idea that lawyers and judges not need at least a bachelor's degrees? What about school teachers? CPAs? How would you feel if people weren't required to finish high school before applying to nursing school? the police department?

    I'm not saying having this or that educational degree or diploma actually means one person is smarter or better suited for any particular job. It's just that in the last several decades, having a bachelor's degree has become a standard minimum of entry to many fields. Having a high school diploma is a minimum standard for many others.

    Diplomas programs were never shunned for being ineffective in their training. The fear was that nursing would be doomed to being *perceived* as menial and as a second or third tier professional choice if the training weren't shifted to be collegiate level training.

    Also, diploma schools seemed to leave graduates at an educational dead-end. If they wanted to grow professionally, they'd have to start over at square one. So I can imagine the folks who were pushing for nursing education to shift to colleges felt that they were doing a good thing for future nurses. Unfortunately, it seems, colleges (in general) while perhaps improving upon student's potential to futher their education and careers eventually, haven't been able to equal the practical training that diploma programs offered (and offer, of the few remaining programs out there).
    Last edit by jjjoy on Feb 9, '08
    lindarn likes this.
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    I am a diploma grad, 1977, the education I received was second to none. I had more theory then the BSN students at the time. I now have a MSN, which did little to add to my nursing expertise. What the MSN has done for me has opened door which had been closed prior to obtaining my MSN. Unfortunately the ADN and BSN programs do not offer any of the clinical experience that the diploma programs offered, these nurses have on the job training.
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    Quote from Alexk49
    I am a diploma grad, 1977, the education I received was second to none. I had more theory then the BSN students at the time. I now have a MSN, which did little to add to my nursing expertise. What the MSN has done for me has opened door which had been closed prior to obtaining my MSN. Unfortunately the ADN and BSN programs do not offer any of the clinical experience that the diploma programs offered, these nurses have on the job training.
    ALL NURSING PROGRAMS NEED TO HAVE A SIX MONTH TO ONE YEAR INTERNSHIP AFTER GRADUATION. There would be much less "sticker shock" for new grads, and it would cut down on the "exodus" from the hospital two years after graduation because of the "sticker shock".

    Nurses need to get over the mentality that new grads should "hit the ground running", the day after graduation. It is unrealistic, and gives nursing a "blue collar", "on the job training", appearance to the public. And folks, appearance is everything.

    We apppear to be less than professional than other Health Care Professional, like Physical Therapists, Occupational Therapists, Pharmacists, etc. Physical Therapy ASSISTANTS have a two year Associates Degree as entry into practice, and nursing still has ADN and Diploma schools. Lets not forget LPN/LVNs who only go to school for one year. The public only hears the word, "nurse", not RN or LPN. The public may think that we are wonderful, but ask them if we are the professional equals of PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, etc. And should be compensated as well as they are. You would get a much differant picture and response.

    The moral of the story is, Nursing needs to get on the bandwagon and increase our entry into practice. Grandfather in all present ADNs and Diploma grads.

    LPN/LVNs need to also increase their education to an Associates Degree. If PT Assistants can earn an Associates Degree with barely touching patients, certainly not performing anything that can kill someone, then LPN/LVNs (and RNs) can step up to the plate and quit the excuses for not going to school longer. If other professions can increase their entry into practice to a Doctorate without all of the whining that comes from the nursing profession, we can also step up to the plate and do the same.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
    Tweety, Miss Mab, BlueRidgeHomeRN, and 2 others like this.
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    I am a diploma nurse. Without a degree, I held positions in management, education and public health. Perhaps I did so because advocates of degrees said I couldn't. However, I love bedside nursing. So at fifty, I am practicing on an adult medical unit and thriving in it. I am pursing my bachelors from a BSN-C program and I am learning to intergrate the theories of my academics into my practice. I do the newsletter for the unit and put up educational bullentin boards for families and staff. I am asserting myself as a mentor and resource to the new nurses that pass through the unit "for experience". I am valued by my leadership in my quest to maintain integrity on the unit. I encourage all diploma nurses to pursue that bachelors. It enhances end rekindles the passion we inherently possess.
    C.G.Nelson likes this.
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    Quote from lindarn
    ALL NURSING PROGRAMS NEED TO HAVE A SIX MONTH TO ONE YEAR INTERNSHIP AFTER GRADUATION. There would be much less "sticker shock" for new grads, and it would cut down on the "exodus" from the hospital two years after graduation because of the "sticker shock".

    Nurses need to get over the mentality that new grads should "hit the ground running", the day after graduation. It is unrealistic, and gives nursing a "blue collar", "on the job training", appearance to the public. And folks, appearance is everything.
    I am a diploma grad (from '84) and I did not need a "six month to one year internship" at graduation -- the idea would have been considered laughable -- because I WAS ready to "hit the ground running" when I graduated. The idea was not at all "unrealistic;" it was a minimum expectation of every graduate of my school. I also experienced little to no "sticker shock" because I was very familiar with how day-to-day life in heatlhcare settings (of all kinds) really worked. The whole discussion about the "necessity" of "internships" and extended orientation has only come about since the ADN and (especially!) BSN programs began eclipsing the diploma programs, and as hospitals found, more and more, that new grads hadn't learned much about nursing in school and, basically, the hospital was going to have to teach them everything they needed to know to do the job the hospital had hired them for.

    AND, as some other posters have noted, I got a much better education in theory, critical thinking, professional and ethical/legal issues in practice, leadership/management, etc., in my diploma school than I did in the BSN completion program I eventually attended or that students got in the ADN and BSN programs in which I've taught. (BTW, my diploma program also encouraged me from day one to plan on continuing my education beyond my nursing diploma ...) That may not have been true for every diploma program (in fact, I'm sure it wasn't), but it was for mine ...

    I don't disagree with you at all about the idea of BSN education for nurses, or, even, increasing the minimum entry into practice; just with how BSN education (and, to a lesser extent, ADN education) for nurses is currently designed and implemented. Somehow, we've thrown the baby out with the bathwater in nursing education! New graduates nowadays have spent a great deal of time and money on their education, supposedly preparing them to be RNs, and yet they come out knowing shockingly little about how to be a nurse (and, in many cases, loaded down with a large quantity of unrealistic expectations that contribute to the "sticker shock" and quick burn-out you talk about).

    One of the really sad and ironic things to me about all of this is that, a century and a half (give or take ) after Florence Nightingale worked so hard to move nursing away from on-the-job training, and into schools that taught it as an established discipline, we have, thanks to our more recent, enlightened developments in nursing education, essentially, effectively, returned to OTJ training ...

    The longer I've been out of school and the more I've seen and experienced in nursing, the more I value the excellent nursing education I got in my original diploma program. I don't claim to know the answers to this (I wish I did!!), but I'm really discouraged about the current state and the future of nursing in this country ...
    10MG-IV, Altra, TalldiNY, and 2 others like this.
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    I thought about becoming a CNA, but then decided to get my Associates, then Bachelor. If you do decide to take the diploma route, you are going to endure more hands on experience and become more relaxed in the hospital or nursing home setting. It's just a proven fact.

    Be proud of whatever route you take, just do it and jump in the field because were needed out there!!!
    10MG-IV likes this.
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    I too am a proud diploma grad. Your co-worker who left would have would have anyway but you were a convienient excuse and a way for him to save face. Good riddance! After 20 yrs in a Level 1 trauma center I've seen my share of the "better nurses" come and go. They usually can't handle the pace or the demand. Don't get me wrong, there are many good BSN's out there but their skills were usually not learned in school. Alphabet soup does not guarentee a good nurse!!!
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    I too am a diploma RN, for 35 yrs now. Still working although the body is beginning to break down (lots of arthritis). I started at a time when the BSN programs were few and far between.
    Do I feel that the higher degree people are better educated than myself? No. When I began to work I was put in charge of a 31 bed medical unit. I never felt it was more than I could manage. We were slave labor so to speak in college. If someone called in sick the supervisor called the dorm. If you had class the next day you worked all night and then went to class. If you had clinical you were excused. It was not 'abuse', it was a real life education. When I graduated work was not much of a transition.
    The nice thing about working now is the ability to pass on some of the things I have learned in the past. Some young grads are willing to listen, some are not.
    I have of course made decisions to not work in certain areas of nursing health care.
    We all have interest in the areas we work in. Fortunately nursing provides the oppurtunity to change fields if we lose interest.
    My biggest complaints re higher degree programs is that hospital administrations are overly impressed by those "letters". I do believe in certifications. My own speciality is/was physical medicine and rehabilatation. I also have found some new grads are too impressed with their own "letters". A closed mind can be a dangerous one and you miss out on a lot of interesting people and knowledge along the way.
    I do not think an RN needs the "letters" unless she plans to go into administration or teaching. A real nurse is one who advocates and meets her patients physical, emotional and spiritual needs.
    Best of luck to All nurses.
    HIPPIECHIKRN and lindarn like this.
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    Quote from JaredCNA
    Two of the travel nurses we had were diploma nurses and they were the most awesome nurses I've ever worked with. They didn't seem to be as anxious as other nurses or have to go to others for help as much. And when their patient crashed, they were really on top of it.

    Nothing against ADNs, I'm going for that too. But if I didn't have a wife and kid and the closest diploma program wasn't 4 hours away, I'd go for my diploma.
    I am an ADN trained by Diploma nurses.... Now I have worked with 'em all. You want a Diploma nurse taking care of your )*( . Those girls, back then only women went to nursing school, would run circles around the rest of them. I was a aide, and even before I was in nursing school those Diploma Nurses taught me how to be a nurse. They explained the reason theory how why and why not to everything they did, and SAVED many a Doctor from problems down the road.


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