Dipoma Nurse and Proud! - page 2

I am a graduate of a hospital school of nursing. It was the best. This is not to say that we did not take college courses because we were required to take courses at Northwestern and other area... Read More

  1. by   SmilingBluEyes
    My husband's auntie is a diploma grad from 1962. Still working and still one of the best darn nurses around!!!! She forgot more about nursing than I will ever know. Diploma grads ate, slept and lived nursing...and knew their stuff when they finally graduated. Be proud, no matter what your entry into nursing. It's one of the hardest programs of study in ANY school/university these days. But I will always have a special place in myheart for diploma grads. My grandmother was one, too....

    Class of 1922!!! I have two of her old texts. BEAUTIFUL and still relevant in many cases, even today!!!! Diploma grads, heck, all nurses, ROCK. Simple enough!
  2. by   Jeffthenurse
    I've always respected the work that diploma grads have done but today, the public DEMANDS MORE education and nursing has changed from doing tasks to coordination of care. A diploma grad today in most major cities, competing against the BSN, wouldn't get the job. Look at other professions in health care.....Physical Therapists now get their Doctorates in 6 years and are called "Doctor." Nursing is still messing around with Diplomas, LPN, ADN, BSN, MN, MSN, DNSc, NP, DNP...no wonder the public is confused and we don't get any respect.
  3. by   45044572
    i too was an lpn for 7 years before i went back to get my rn. the adn program was no where hands on as my lpn program. i am now taking chamberlain's on-line bsn classes.
    has anyone out there ever taken any of their classes? they are linked with devry. i'm currently taking devry's soc 351, tough !! has anyone ever taken that class? i'm worried about the final, 5 essay questions from what? the threads? reading? lectures? links? any help would be appreciated thanks
  4. by   elkpark
    Quote from Jeffthenurse
    I've always respected the work that diploma grads have done but today, the public DEMANDS MORE education and nursing has changed from doing tasks to coordination of care. A diploma grad today in most major cities, competing against the BSN, wouldn't get the job. Look at other professions in health care.....Physical Therapists now get their Doctorates in 6 years and are called "Doctor." Nursing is still messing around with Diplomas, LPN, ADN, BSN, MN, MSN, DNSc, NP, DNP...no wonder the public is confused and we don't get any respect.
    I respectfully disagree with a few of your points --

    1) My diploma program (completed in the early '80s) was not focused on "doing tasks;" I received a far better education in theory, critical thinking, professionalism, legal/ethical issues, management, etc., than I did in the BSN completion program I completed years later (which was a joke, a merely a hoop I had to jump through to go to grad school) or any of the several BSN programs with which I've had experience since then offer.

    2) It's not "the public" demanding more (not necessarily better) education for nurses, it's TPTB in nursing -- the vast majority of the public has no idea how nursing education works, partly because of the wide variety of nursing degrees floating around out there, and don't have a clue beyond whether you have "RN" or "LPN" after your name (and most of them don't even have any real idea of what the difference is between the two!)

    3) In all the (many) job interviews I've attended over the years (even v. recently), the nurse interviewers have always considered it a strong plus that I am a diploma grad, and that has made me more competitive, not less. Just one person's experience, and I suppose that depends in large part on who is doing the interviewing.
  5. by   BikerDi
    I am a Diploma Nurse from Jewish Hospital School of Nursing.
    I am extremely proud! I received an excellent academic education with college courses taken at University of Missouri-St Louis and nursing courses at the nursing school. I had incredible hands on experience. By the time I graduated, I could drop an NG or float a Swan! I was proficient at starting peripheral IV and drawing blood.
    I also learned tons about theory, but practiced reality! Thank goodness.
    I was organized, my "Contemporary Nursing" rotation meant you worked 8 hour shifts and took care of a full assignment, usually 5 or 6 patients on days.

    When I graduated and worked nights, I was the only RN with a LPN and NA for 28 patients on a gen surg floor. I was a Charge Nurse before I actually got my board results back.

    I have thought about getting my BSN, but don't think I ever will now. I am an Informatics Nurse now and getting my BSN with my years of experience and years at the same hospital would not mean squat. So, it would be a personal accomplishment and to get those 3 letters behind my name doesn't mean squat to me. The only thing that irritates me is that I cannot get certified in informatics because you need a BSN. When I worked Critical Care I did have my CCRN and I was proud of that, and still am.

    For years now I have worked with more educated nurses and the truth is...education doesn't make the nurse.

    It is who that person is - that makes the nurse!
  6. by   Jeffthenurse
    I think we should all work together to find a way to combine the excellent clinical training of the diploma schools with the academics of colleges and universities to make nursing a better profession. I taught nursing for over 5 years, RN's (ADN program) & LPN's, classroom & clinical, and was a preceptor in the hospital and in homecare. One answer has been the Nurse Practitioner who, with a Master's Degree, can open his/her own office and care for patients independently. We've come a long way from the diploma vs BSN argument, let's move on......
  7. by   Altra
    Quote from Jeffthenurse
    A diploma grad today in most major cities, competing against the BSN, wouldn't get the job.
    That's one heck of a generalization ... and simply not true.

    Recent diploma grad here ... with a thriving career.
  8. by   JaredCNA
    Two of the travel nurses we had were diploma nurses and they were the most awesome nurses I've ever worked with. They didn't seem to be as anxious as other nurses or have to go to others for help as much. And when their patient crashed, they were really on top of it.

    Nothing against ADNs, I'm going for that too. But if I didn't have a wife and kid and the closest diploma program wasn't 4 hours away, I'd go for my diploma.
  9. by   jjjoy
    I think the reason some people think BSN is a good way to go is because for many people out there, if they hear that nurses don't need a bachelor's degree that it can't be that hard. The assumption is that if nurses did indeed need to be very smart and that nursing was *that* difficult to master that a nursing jobs would require at least a college degree. The assumption is that if you could, you would've gone to university, but since you couldn't (could afford it, couldn't cut it, weren't that motivated) then maybe you could go into nursing for a decent profession. I'm not saying such assumptions are correct.

    But think about it. What would your *initial* gut reaction be to the idea that lawyers and judges not need at least a bachelor's degrees? What about school teachers? CPAs? How would you feel if people weren't required to finish high school before applying to nursing school? the police department?

    I'm not saying having this or that educational degree or diploma actually means one person is smarter or better suited for any particular job. It's just that in the last several decades, having a bachelor's degree has become a standard minimum of entry to many fields. Having a high school diploma is a minimum standard for many others.

    Diplomas programs were never shunned for being ineffective in their training. The fear was that nursing would be doomed to being *perceived* as menial and as a second or third tier professional choice if the training weren't shifted to be collegiate level training.

    Also, diploma schools seemed to leave graduates at an educational dead-end. If they wanted to grow professionally, they'd have to start over at square one. So I can imagine the folks who were pushing for nursing education to shift to colleges felt that they were doing a good thing for future nurses. Unfortunately, it seems, colleges (in general) while perhaps improving upon student's potential to futher their education and careers eventually, haven't been able to equal the practical training that diploma programs offered (and offer, of the few remaining programs out there).
    Last edit by jjjoy on Feb 9, '08
  10. by   Ginger's Mom
    I am a diploma grad, 1977, the education I received was second to none. I had more theory then the BSN students at the time. I now have a MSN, which did little to add to my nursing expertise. What the MSN has done for me has opened door which had been closed prior to obtaining my MSN. Unfortunately the ADN and BSN programs do not offer any of the clinical experience that the diploma programs offered, these nurses have on the job training.
  11. by   lindarn
    Quote from Alexk49
    I am a diploma grad, 1977, the education I received was second to none. I had more theory then the BSN students at the time. I now have a MSN, which did little to add to my nursing expertise. What the MSN has done for me has opened door which had been closed prior to obtaining my MSN. Unfortunately the ADN and BSN programs do not offer any of the clinical experience that the diploma programs offered, these nurses have on the job training.
    ALL NURSING PROGRAMS NEED TO HAVE A SIX MONTH TO ONE YEAR INTERNSHIP AFTER GRADUATION. There would be much less "sticker shock" for new grads, and it would cut down on the "exodus" from the hospital two years after graduation because of the "sticker shock".

    Nurses need to get over the mentality that new grads should "hit the ground running", the day after graduation. It is unrealistic, and gives nursing a "blue collar", "on the job training", appearance to the public. And folks, appearance is everything.

    We apppear to be less than professional than other Health Care Professional, like Physical Therapists, Occupational Therapists, Pharmacists, etc. Physical Therapy ASSISTANTS have a two year Associates Degree as entry into practice, and nursing still has ADN and Diploma schools. Lets not forget LPN/LVNs who only go to school for one year. The public only hears the word, "nurse", not RN or LPN. The public may think that we are wonderful, but ask them if we are the professional equals of PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, etc. And should be compensated as well as they are. You would get a much differant picture and response.

    The moral of the story is, Nursing needs to get on the bandwagon and increase our entry into practice. Grandfather in all present ADNs and Diploma grads.

    LPN/LVNs need to also increase their education to an Associates Degree. If PT Assistants can earn an Associates Degree with barely touching patients, certainly not performing anything that can kill someone, then LPN/LVNs (and RNs) can step up to the plate and quit the excuses for not going to school longer. If other professions can increase their entry into practice to a Doctorate without all of the whining that comes from the nursing profession, we can also step up to the plate and do the same.

    Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
    Spokane, Washington
  12. by   nurse nettie
    I am a diploma nurse. Without a degree, I held positions in management, education and public health. Perhaps I did so because advocates of degrees said I couldn't. However, I love bedside nursing. So at fifty, I am practicing on an adult medical unit and thriving in it. I am pursing my bachelors from a BSN-C program and I am learning to intergrate the theories of my academics into my practice. I do the newsletter for the unit and put up educational bullentin boards for families and staff. I am asserting myself as a mentor and resource to the new nurses that pass through the unit "for experience". I am valued by my leadership in my quest to maintain integrity on the unit. I encourage all diploma nurses to pursue that bachelors. It enhances end rekindles the passion we inherently possess.
  13. by   elkpark
    Quote from lindarn
    ALL NURSING PROGRAMS NEED TO HAVE A SIX MONTH TO ONE YEAR INTERNSHIP AFTER GRADUATION. There would be much less "sticker shock" for new grads, and it would cut down on the "exodus" from the hospital two years after graduation because of the "sticker shock".

    Nurses need to get over the mentality that new grads should "hit the ground running", the day after graduation. It is unrealistic, and gives nursing a "blue collar", "on the job training", appearance to the public. And folks, appearance is everything.
    I am a diploma grad (from '84) and I did not need a "six month to one year internship" at graduation -- the idea would have been considered laughable -- because I WAS ready to "hit the ground running" when I graduated. The idea was not at all "unrealistic;" it was a minimum expectation of every graduate of my school. I also experienced little to no "sticker shock" because I was very familiar with how day-to-day life in heatlhcare settings (of all kinds) really worked. The whole discussion about the "necessity" of "internships" and extended orientation has only come about since the ADN and (especially!) BSN programs began eclipsing the diploma programs, and as hospitals found, more and more, that new grads hadn't learned much about nursing in school and, basically, the hospital was going to have to teach them everything they needed to know to do the job the hospital had hired them for.

    AND, as some other posters have noted, I got a much better education in theory, critical thinking, professional and ethical/legal issues in practice, leadership/management, etc., in my diploma school than I did in the BSN completion program I eventually attended or that students got in the ADN and BSN programs in which I've taught. (BTW, my diploma program also encouraged me from day one to plan on continuing my education beyond my nursing diploma ...) That may not have been true for every diploma program (in fact, I'm sure it wasn't), but it was for mine ...

    I don't disagree with you at all about the idea of BSN education for nurses, or, even, increasing the minimum entry into practice; just with how BSN education (and, to a lesser extent, ADN education) for nurses is currently designed and implemented. Somehow, we've thrown the baby out with the bathwater in nursing education! New graduates nowadays have spent a great deal of time and money on their education, supposedly preparing them to be RNs, and yet they come out knowing shockingly little about how to be a nurse (and, in many cases, loaded down with a large quantity of unrealistic expectations that contribute to the "sticker shock" and quick burn-out you talk about).

    One of the really sad and ironic things to me about all of this is that, a century and a half (give or take ) after Florence Nightingale worked so hard to move nursing away from on-the-job training, and into schools that taught it as an established discipline, we have, thanks to our more recent, enlightened developments in nursing education, essentially, effectively, returned to OTJ training ...

    The longer I've been out of school and the more I've seen and experienced in nursing, the more I value the excellent nursing education I got in my original diploma program. I don't claim to know the answers to this (I wish I did!!), but I'm really discouraged about the current state and the future of nursing in this country ...

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