Degree vs Diploma?

Its nice to hear from diploma colleagues. I agree with TimStreet, I too was well prepared for general nursing when I graduated except for critical care. My hospital was a small community hospital in Pittsburgh with a ward converted to four monitor beds but basic nursing skills and care were taught in an excellent manner. The other thing, my program was dirt cheap! The whole thing was only around 2,500 dollars, still not bad in 1975 terms. Housing and food was included the first year then 50 dollars a month the final two years. And, we dormed in a beautiful old victorian dorm sorrounded by huge trees. It was excellent. (Ahh, nice thoughts).

I left general nursing in 1981 for NP training and am working outside the US now for over 13 years so I am not well acquainted with the current state of nursing affairs but from what I have been reading over the past months on Allnurses, bed side nursing seems different now, supplanted by a good deal of technology, documentation, etc., and it is disheartening to read different posts about serious behavioral issues by nurses and problems b/tween staff nurses and nusing administration. In 'my day' we really worked as teams, enjoyed our work, gave 'kick'in' back-rubs and most of us didn't think about doing some other kind of work. I don't remember adversarial problems b/tween staff and adm.

With that said, now I see the benefit of advanced degrees. I also remember when the BSN was to become mandatory. I entered a BS program in health care management. My NP supervisor in new york had completed that program and they gave 60 credits for the nursing diploma. At that time to the early nineties it was suggested that nurses pursue graduate degrees in business or administration. Diversification was the rage consistent with massive hospital acquistions. Nursing managers with a business accumen were valued in the hosptial paradigm of that time. In the late ninieties hospital development strategies began to change based on economics. The idea of diversying with a grad degree outside of nursing was becoming less significant. The BSN/MSN has become more valued as increasingly more hospitals want nurses with stronger nursing eductional backgrounds. I think that is likely highly variable depending upon a facilities organizational culture. I still see nursing management jobs accepting MSN, MHA, etc. I think some BSN/MSN drive is being driven by the ANAs magnet hospital program. Yet, I do think that higher nursing degrees do offer a higher level of nursing knowledge as well.

In my experience my diploma program was basic nursing and gave me a solid foundation for general nursing. My NP program was a one year certification and gave me what I needed to get started. Both have served my extremely well! However, my pursuit of higher education is definately 'value-added' and I am seeing how important this education is. My entry level RN/NP was good but it could have been better.

I am currently doing a masters in health care adm. I just fiinished a course in research methodology. The stats were rough but overall a very helpful course. BSN and higher degrees give this information and its important depending on your work. I need and want to research certain issues in my work and now have a better idea how to go about doing it. Also, as an NP I have a better understanding of what the stats and stats used in a study actually represent (but I still 'cut to the chase' and go for the discussion...). I don't know if todays diploma programs get into this information but in my position and where I still would like to go in my career, I need this knowledge.

I now advocate getting the highest level of entry level education one can afford at the outset. It can save alot of time and effort later on in ones career and can offer a more rapid progression in advancement depending on ones career goals.

In realistic terms, with one in college and two getting ready for the fall, (with dad paying for his grad school out-of-pocket) there are economic realities as well and advanced degrees are what I need to move in my career.

Finally, I believe that critical thinking and problem solving skills are definately important. My basic nursing did little to develop that and experience is really an important element in developing these skills, not just the classroom However, I now believe that the mere act of study, learning and researching does help develop these skills as well as increasing responsibility. As the only American and westerner in the hospital I work I have had to depend on myself to develop my department. I can see how much I have grown over the past 13 years, often by trial and error. Both my daily experience and my pursuit of education has helped to develop my critical thinking skills.

Acquriing Knowledge really is a constant journey.

It’s nice to hear from other diploma grads. I agree with TimStreet. My diploma program also prepared me well for the time (1978) as my one year Adult NP program also did. These programs allowed me to enter both areas successfully and at very low cost. However over the past 3 decades and where I am in my career at this point as director of nursing, higher education is necessary for my own needs as well as viability for future advancement.

Experience and education are complimentary. As a DON and the only westerner in my hospital I must rely largely on myself. I have learned and developed to a degree by trial and error and I have seen my growth over the past 13 plus years (in my current position) and in fact, I feel I am just peaking in how I am leading and developing my department which is in a Saudi hospital with nurses from 6 countries. It is a huge challenge as many are far below the standard I need to establish a western standard of practice but, we are moving ahead, maybe by tiny steps, but it is positive movement none-the-less. (I had to first start by getting my staff to first understand what is a standard.) While my basic education and past experiences are enough for the hospital I work in, I have seen how my continuous pursuit of knowledge via self study and graduate studies have helped me to grow and improve. It really is a constant process.

It is interesting how shifting health care paradigms over the years have changed the type of education nurses undertake. In the mid-eighties large hospital acquisitions valued nurses who had ‘diversified’ degrees such as MBAs and MHAs. I did a BS in health care management during that time, largely because the supervisor of our NP group where I worked did the same program and went on for her MBA. Now, BSN/MSN are being important I think in large part due to magnet recognition programs by the ANA, economic and political considerations and other variables.

There are things that a BSN offers that my diploma did not. Nursing theories and research methodologies (with statistics) are two examples. I thought for many years that nursing theories were irrelevant at least for my practice but in my position now, some aspects of nursing theories have offered me valuable ideas and a recent research methodology course in my MHA grad program has been invaluable.

In short, I now believe that anyone entering nursing now should pursue the highest degree they can at the outset. It not only provides important information, it will save time in the future if one decides to pursue higher degrees (or needs to) and can open a variety of career paths that one often does not envision in the early stages of ones career. The old adage ‘if I knew then what I know now’ has some merit but we will never know the future until we live it but we can seek the experiences and wisdom of others who have been there for guidance.

apologies: Sorry to all for the two posts, i thought the first was lost so I wrote another one.

WOW!!! that was VERY helpful input and although I am not an RN (yet), I have to agree with you completely that being more experienced is a little better than someone who has "book knowledge"...


I am not discrediting education, but i am struggling to get through some of my classes that have NOTHING to do with nursing, but are required to obtain a degree since I am more focused on what's important than my philosophy class, etc.... hands-on experience would make me far more of an asset to ANY employer...

I think everyone, especially you all from the original diploma format should get paid based on your experience vs education....my grandmother had a diploma and her entire hospital suffered when she retired....it wasn't solely based on her great personality...she was a great RN!


My hat's off to you guys...I'd rather get one of you as my nurse as opposed to a BSN student who has to run back and check their books or ask someone for help in order to provide care for me....

Thank you to you and your peers! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!

I am another proud diploma grad ('84). Although I have gone on to complete a BSN and attended graduate school (the only reason I did the BSN, haha), the longer I've been in nursing the more I appreciate what an excellent education in nursing I got in my diploma program. We graduated much better prepared than either ADN or BSN grads do now, and I got a much better education in professionalism, leadership, critical thinking, legal/ethical issues, etc., than I did in the BSN completion program I attended, or offered in the ADN or BSN programs I've taught in over the years.

Personally, I feel strongly that we've "thrown the baby out with the bathwater" in nursing education.

I have a question for all of you. I have been debating on which type of education I want to get. I eventually want to obtain my BSN and go on to school but I have been in school 4 years and have not got in to any programs. I have recently discovered the diploma program and have highly been considering it. Lately I have been leaning towards getting either my associates degree or diploma and then working as I go back to school. I personally feel it would give me better experience and help me out through the rest of school. However, there aren't many school's around that offer the associate's degree program and there are a few diploma schools that are close. I have talked to a few people who recently got their BSN who agree with me that it would help to have more experience than they have but I'm not sure if it's the best reason to attend a diploma school. Does anyone know how difficult it would be for me to go back and get my BSN if I chose to attend a diploma school?

I had no difficulty (as a diploma grad) in getting accepted to or completing the BSN completion I attended many years ago. As far as I know, most BSN completion programs are equally welcoming to both diploma and ADN grads.

The only caution I would offer about diploma programs is to make sure that most or all of the coursework will be standard college credits that you can transfer later to another school. I believe that is the case with nearly all diploma programs by now (I believe that all, or nearly all, of the diploma programs that have survived have established a relationship with a college that formally awards the credits), but it would be smart to make sure before you get involved.

I agree with most of the diploma nurses above, being a diploma nurse myself.
I was educated at Mohawk College in Ontario, where my diploma program was 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 yrs depending if you went thru the summer.
Now they have abolished that program combining it with the Mcmaster university program. Both schools are taught the same except in the 4 yr BScn they have another semester of theory.
Diploma nurses are just as qualified, if not more practically.
Both programs are great, just depends if you want to spend more money.
If you want to proceed into management, then get a degree.

Well I already have most of the classes you need other than the actually nursing classes. I have all my anatomy and microbiology as well as a nutrition, chemistry, math, biology, and a lot of other random usless classes. I'm a junior at the college I attend now so I have been taking all the classes I think I will end up needing. So hopefully the class transfer thing won't be an issue. But are you talking about all the pre req classes transferring being an issue or the actually nursing classes being an issue? I'm a little confused.

One thing have not seen mentioned, is the correct time frame of Diploma vs. ADN programs.



Yes, Diploma programs normally run two and one half to three years, and ADN programs about two to two and one half years, but there is a difference.



Most if not all diploma programs once one is accepted into the program you are a student nurse from day one. Diploma programs were famous for being arranged in such a way that one's nursing and core classes were taken in a logical manner and together, this allowed students to build foundations and things made "sense".



In contrast ADN programs do have the same nursing class hierarchy as diploma schools, core and pre-requisite classes often are scattered about by students for various reasons. Some take all non-nursing and core classes before applying for acceptance for instance. This can lead to students either forgetting information, or not seeing how things fit together. Case in point, some ADN programs requiring Med Dose Calc as part of the pre-nursing sequence. To me at least meds make much more sense if one is on the floors doing clinicals and have something to relate things to.