BSN's vs. Community college - page 5

Hi all. I just wanted to say that nurses with BSN's in my opinion should be paid more, and have preference in the hiring process. In community college they basically pay you to go, and at a... Read More

  1. by   llg
    As someone said in the beginning, "Don't feed the trolls!"

    I looked up other posts by this original poster. In her "career" here at allnurses, she only posted twice.

    llg
  2. by   sweetVTnurse
    Very interesting. . . I have been an ADN for 1 1/2 years after 3 years of LPN. I have thought about persuing a BSN because it would be a step closer to MSN where there is more money. I then realized how much money I would add to my student loans. How many years would it take of a pay raise to equal the added debt? And then I realized that I learn more everyday, every hour of working than I would probably learn about true life nursing in 2+ years of school. I am new to the Emergency Dept. and I am "awed" everyday. Most things can't be taught in nursing school. And I agree, WE ALL DESERVE MORE MONEY.
  3. by   Sara, RN
    I believe the BSN vs. ADN debate is of more interest lately. The advantage of a BSN used to be that you had the advantages of management and some different job opportunities whereas the ADN was a bedside level nurse. This has changed...I have had some ADN managers in the past few years. So, it raises the question why even bother with a BSN?
    However, why go to a "2-year" program which is taking 3-4 to complete? Is this because the psych, chemistry and anatomy and physiology requirements are so much greater than an ADN?
    I would have to say that looking at the BSN completion program requirements, this would be the easiest way to go. The traditional BSN program has many more prerequisites, which in my program from 1992, had 95% to do with obtaining my BSN. Lots of science and psych/sociology. Needed??? All I know is it prepared me for many things, enhanced my critical thinking and ability to look at multi-system issues. However, I also felt it should be a 5 year program when I graduated.
    I do believe that in every program you will have a great nurse and a bad nurse despite their educational level. I also see some BSN programs which suffer and some ADN programs which suffer.
    Years ago an LPN was a 2 year program, now an RN can be a 2 year degree and an LPN is a 1 year program. The most effective program which gets the least acknowledgement and respect is the 3year diploma RN. An ADN can go into management but not a diploma? Something's wrong with this.
    However, since I've been in this field (1990), I have seen a general decline in the preparation of nurses...knowledge base, skills level and desire to care and advocate for the patient. At times this is appaling to me! I have witnessed this as I mentor student and new RN's, whether ADN or BSN prepared. Is this due to the lack of educators? The need to push nurses through?
    examples: no aspiration prior to an IM injection; not looking up medications prior to giving something never heard of; refusing to do personal cares; not being alarmed when there's a sustained vtach on the monitor; talking to mom while a pale and struggling 13 yo has an asthmatic attack. These things scare me!!
    This general decrease is quality I've witnessed is insulting to those of us who pride ourselves in being GOOD RN's, despite all the crap going on in healthcare. I wonder, will this only add to the general lack of respect given to RN's in the workplace???? It really is a disheartening trend...
  4. by   Alexsys
    The sole reason I am currently pursuing a RN-BSN crossover is because I need it to get my masters (Which is required for what I wish to do) not the pay or status. I dont think there is a big difference in responsibility is there?
    Last edit by Alexsys on Jan 12, '06 : Reason: Typos
  5. by   BBingSN79
    Quote from cottoncandyclouds
    Hi all.

    I just wanted to say that nurses with BSN's in my opinion should be paid more, and have preference in the hiring process. In community college they basically pay you to go, and at a University, you take on soooo many student loans. The upper division classes are much more difficult at a University and I truly feel it's unfair to group the two (BSN, and community) together. It's completley different. I have heard that there are some states that requrire a BSN if that's true, I think it's great.
    Bye for now.
    OMG! I'm really gonna bite my tongue here! LOL You have your nerve. Coming from a current ADN student you need to get your facts straight also. I don't know where you heard BSN students take a different state NCLEX! Here in CO atleast all RN students take the same boards and you know what? Two year students have consistently done better on them than four year students. I think the two year RN program is great. There is a lot of wasted time and coursework in the BSN program hence money too. Sounds like someone is bitter that they spent all that money when they could have spent half the time and half the money in a two year program. Everyone has student loans so dont' sit there and wine because you think you should get paid more.
  6. by   BBingSN79
    Quote from Sara, RN
    I believe the BSN vs. ADN debate is of more interest lately. The advantage of a BSN used to be that you had the advantages of management and some different job opportunities whereas the ADN was a bedside level nurse. This has changed...I have had some ADN managers in the past few years. So, it raises the question why even bother with a BSN?
    However, why go to a "2-year" program which is taking 3-4 to complete? Is this because the psych, chemistry and anatomy and physiology requirements are so much greater than an ADN?
    I would have to say that looking at the BSN completion program requirements, this would be the easiest way to go. The traditional BSN program has many more prerequisites, which in my program from 1992, had 95% to do with obtaining my BSN. Lots of science and psych/sociology. Needed??? All I know is it prepared me for many things, enhanced my critical thinking and ability to look at multi-system issues. However, I also felt it should be a 5 year program when I graduated.
    I do believe that in every program you will have a great nurse and a bad nurse despite their educational level. I also see some BSN programs which suffer and some ADN programs which suffer.
    Years ago an LPN was a 2 year program, now an RN can be a 2 year degree and an LPN is a 1 year program. The most effective program which gets the least acknowledgement and respect is the 3year diploma RN. An ADN can go into management but not a diploma? Something's wrong with this.
    However, since I've been in this field (1990), I have seen a general decline in the preparation of nurses...knowledge base, skills level and desire to care and advocate for the patient. At times this is appaling to me! I have witnessed this as I mentor student and new RN's, whether ADN or BSN prepared. Is this due to the lack of educators? The need to push nurses through?
    examples: no aspiration prior to an IM injection; not looking up medications prior to giving something never heard of; refusing to do personal cares; not being alarmed when there's a sustained vtach on the monitor; talking to mom while a pale and struggling 13 yo has an asthmatic attack. These things scare me!!
    This general decrease is quality I've witnessed is insulting to those of us who pride ourselves in being GOOD RN's, despite all the crap going on in healthcare. I wonder, will this only add to the general lack of respect given to RN's in the workplace???? It really is a disheartening trend...
    Unfortunately this is not just with nursing. College graduates in all fields are stepping out of college unprepared for the workforce. I've seen it even in fields like medicine. I personally think that a lot of nurses enter the field unprepared due to the lack of clinical time and practice. This has nothing to do with what program you are in because I hear 4 year students complain they don't feel they've gotten enough hands on experience or clinical time. Whos' to blame for that? Id' say the hospitals. It's very hard for schools to get clinical time let alone find enough nurses really willing to nurture students one on one. Hospital is a business nowadays like everything even college. Having a bunch of nurses trying to nurture students on the hospitals dime is bad for business and one instructor to 8 or 9 students is not very practical to facilitate great learning and practice.
  7. by   SFCardiacRN
    Crappy RN's are crappy nurses regardless of education. The worst and most useless RN in my unit has an MSN.
  8. by   MedSurgeMess
    omg! i'm really gonna bite my tongue here! lol you have your nerve. coming from a current adn student you need to get your facts straight also. i don't know where you heard bsn students take a different state nclex! here in co atleast all rn students take the same boards and you know what? two year students have consistently done better on them than four year students. i think the two year rn program is great. there is a lot of wasted time and coursework in the bsn program hence money too. sounds like someone is bitter that they spent all that money when they could have spent half the time and half the money in a two year program. everyone has student loans so dont' sit there and wine because you think you should get paid more


    she didn't say they took different boards, just that some states require a bsn as entry-north dakota used to be one, but they reverted to help end the nursing shortage (correct me if i'm wrong, just what i've heard), and i hear new york is looking into this issue, as well as indiana (which directly effects most of my coworkers), and probably a few others. i know some individual facilities are making it a requirement for magnet nursing......my thought, there really isn't a simple answer to this debate of cc vs bsn-been there/done that, had more fun and learned more as far as pt care in cc, bsn mobility program okay, just a little more spread thin as most of us balancing careers, families, and all the other fun stuff of life
    as far as paid more: the asns in my facility are currently making the same $$ as bsns with same experience, which doesn't bother me in the least-but, in fields like business and some mechanical/technology fields, the more education, the higher the $$ starting out, and experience gives even more money. no easy answers there either
    Last edit by MedSurgeMess on Jan 13, '06
  9. by   ashlynurse
    WELL WELL WELL... did we all not take the same NCLEX exam ??? Just wondering... a nurse is a nurse. Personally I graduated with my ADN, and now working on my MSN. There should be no shame on folks that graduated with their diploma, BSN, or otherwise. Whatever path you took... we have all ended up at the same place..... RN's. Yes, I do agree that for many mgt. postions they prefer BSN or higher... to eachs own.
  10. by   speckRN
    I believe that yes BSN's for the most part should be at a higher rate of pay, mostly because of the amount of schooling and costs incurred. However, I do not think that simply because someone has a bachelor's over an associate degree should give preferential in hiring. I am an ADN and currently am working on my BSN. I work on a unit that has several BSN nurses, and not one but all of them come to me for help in situations that they should be able to handle. Just recently they found out that I was currently working on my BSN and told me they thought I had already had my BSN. I also find that we have a few LPN's on our unit that way out qualify many of our other staff and can run circles around them. Many of our ADN staff get more clinical during school than our BSN and have a better grasp for hands on.
  11. by   MD1211
    What do you call an RN with her ADN?
    A: an RN

    What do you call an RN with her BSN?
    A: an RN

    What do you call an RN who passed her NCLEX? The same NCLEX that both groups took?
    A: an RN

    BSNs may go to school longer, but ADNs have to work harder to get there in half the time. I want to get my BSN, but since I am putting myself through school, I have to go the ADN route. That doesn't make me any dumber or less qualified, just that mommy and daddy didn't foot the bill.
  12. by   SmilingBluEyes
    This thread is pretty old and this subject has been "done" many times before. For a good thread discussing the merits of the different routes to achieving an RN credential see:

    http://allnurses.com/forums/f8/have-...ad-180528.html

    Discussion and debate are always welcome and encouraged, as long as respect is given all "sides" of this debate. Thanks.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Dec 13, '06
  13. by   suzy253
    Quote from MD1211
    What do you call an RN with her ADN?
    A: an RN

    What do you call an RN with her BSN?
    A: an RN

    What do you call an RN who passed her NCLEX? The same NCLEX that both groups took?
    A: an RN
    :yeahthat:
    AND
    what do you call a diploma grad RN?
    an RN (with more clinical time/prep than BSN and ADNs)z

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