BSN vs. Associates

[askater]

I keep reading the topic about Dying career. I keep reading seeing what WE CAN DO. And what's brought up time and time again is associate nurses putting down bachelors and vice a versa. I thought I'd open a thread...because I see it's a HOT topic.

I'm a BSN nurse. I'm proud of my accomplishments. I'm an excellent nurse. I've learned far more after graduating than my 4 years in high school. And I'm sure that's true for BSN and ADN nurses.

I've had 3 different bosses. One had her associates degree. She was the worse boss ever. Not because she had an associates, but because she had a very negative personality. My other 2 bosses have there BSN. THe one boss was excellent. He supported our unit and wasn't just thinking about saving money. My current boss has a BSN. She doesn't support us, she thinks about saving every penny. I feel it's a lot to do about personality and not what degree each nurse had.

The ADN nurses that said BSN...are no better than ADN. Do you feel that BSN colleges should be closed and ALL nurses have associate degress.

Also do your hospital have better benefits for BSN. The hospitals I work at don't. I make the same as all RN's.

I hope we can have a nice discussion Thanks

[g_evere]

One issue I don't see brought up here is the allure of having a license in 2 years instead of 3 or 4. I chose ADN at age 29 because it was cheaper and faster. I haven't experienced a BSN program, but I know the 2-year program is incredibly stressful.

I work in very skilled LTC, and have to say there are LPN's who have been working 20 years who know a lot more about some things than I've learned in my 2 years of experience. I've met BSN's who can't give a proper bedbath. Maybe the LPN can't start an I.V., but can handle a vent patient, or maybe the BSN can't place a bedpan correctly but gets an I.V. in on the first stick and can calculate rates quickly.

My best experiences have been at a place where the more experienced RN's took me and showed me "how they did it," when I did something wrong instead of talking to the supervisor or berating me behind my back. We shared and helped, and they appreciated my input, fresh out of the books as well, without feeling insulted. The goal was the patient, not our pride.

I've had it the other way - the point is to work together and use what we're best at, and try to develop eachother's skills without being condescending.

[snickers]

I'm a Canadian nurse and am not clear as to what an ADN is, would someone out there please explain? Thanx.

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[justanurse]

An ADN is a nurse that has an Associate Degree of Nursing (went to college for two years). A BSN is a nurse that has a Bachelors of Science in Nursing (went to college for 4 years). Both are nurses who pass the same board exam to be able to practice.

[snickers]

Thanx justanurse....

Similar to the diploma and degree nurse here.

Now all rn programs are Bachelor of Nursing in Canada.

[shortnrse]

I do not believe that whether you have an ADN or BSN is really the issue rather it is how you do your job. I have worked with wonderful nurses that received either training, I have also worked with lousy ones. The important thing is the patient care you are giving. I have my BSN and do not receive any extra benefits for having it. ALso if you look at the 2 year programs most of them will really take you 4 years after waiting lists and prerequesites. You do have more options though with your BSN.

[Oldtimer]

Hi Everyone!

This has always been an endless debate. I graduated from a Diploma Program that provided classes for Nursing and then utilized a Community College for general academics. Therefore, I had a Diploma in Nursing, and AS and AA degree as well. I actually had more Nursing Education (in classroom hours/diversity) then the BSN program. I did not however have a Statistics or Physical Education class. There was also more clinical experience by the end of the first year than the entire BSN program. I now have so many certifications added to my career I can barely keep track. I have been teaching in my hospital for 15 years as well as working and precepting. I have also been in management.

If I were to take a Nurse directly out of school - then give me the Diploma Nurse. They spent so many hours in clinical time and Nursing Instruction they have acquired more practicing skills by graduation.

Given about 2 years working experience I can't tell the difference between any of the degrees.

[Todd]

The great debate continues and will most likely continue until an orginzation such as the AACN manages to eliminate the ADN programs. I have seen great ADN & BSN nurses. I believe that it is a matter of what you want to do. As a "bed side" nurse is thier any advantage to the BSN? Most management, teaching, etc postion require a BSN. Of course the VA is now "prefering" a BSN. We need to remember that the current average age of a new grad is 33.7 years. A mid life change? Maybe? Would they change if they had to go for 4 years? Maybe not. For many, such as myself, I switched profession in my late 30's (from paramedic to nurse). I started with an ADN, and now going for BSN. Why? Just something I want to do. Is a BSN going to make me more money? Maybe, Maybe not. Most often you are unable to determine if a nurse is a BSN or ADN, unless you asked them.

P.S. I think North Dakota requires BSN for their RN's, but I could be wrong.

[Daisy]

I work in a small community hospital where we mostly have Associate degree nurses. Some of our Managers don't even have BS degrees. And it shows. I got my BS in Health Care Administration ( took me 5 years) and I felt the education would be beneficial to my management job. The job turned into a glorified secretary who spent hours on staffing, payroll, and tons of paperwork. NO REWARDS and no opportunities to really be a leader. I got out. Education no matter what type of school should be catered towards health care today. Organizational skills, leadership, critical thinking, a high level of technical skills, customer service, computers, the ability to work with others in respectful manner, and of course being kind and caring to the patients. That's what makes a good nurse today.

[dianee]

Hi everyone,

Somehow I feel very sad that this devisive issue is still being debated after 30+ years. It is my personal feeling that I am not defined by what degress I have. I am defined because I am a nurse. Being nurse is what means something special to me and for the clients I care for. I started out with an ADN, then I went back to school and received a BSN, now I've returned to school again and I am currently an FNP student in and MSN program. Has my education helped me? That's a definite yes. It certainly has opened many more employement opportunities and helped me expand many new professional horizons. Do I consider myself "more professional?" That's a no. No matter what degree I had at the time, I feel I have always attempted to act with the utmost professionalism. A degree does not insure professionalism. That comes from inside each nurse. I feel for the most part, most of the nurses I have worked with feel this way too. I respect every nurse who goes about their work everyday, trying to do their best, and take care of their patients. There is room for every nurse. We need to end this very old and stale debate; and get on with being the best professional nurses we all can be.

[Pedinurse]

I have been a ADN graduate for 18yrs. In my training our curriculum was more strenuous that the BSN program at that time. I had worked in Pediatrics for 16 yrs and was charge nurse for 6yrs. I have since moved to Canada....and after getting my registration, was hired as a supervisory in a health care agency and just recently offered a job in a teaching capacity. So I find that my ADN has not been a problem with getting the jobs that I want. I do feel that when I graduated I was prepared to be a Nurse.

[ltm]

I am currently a student in a BSN program and this is a very hot topic at school. From my understanding, both ADN and BSN programs take the same amount of time to acquire. ADNs have to have two years of prerequisites, just like BSN students. Then you do two years of sheer nursing school. From a research article presented by my favorite professor, both ADN and BSN graduates perform at the same level in six months. My whole point is that this is really a waste of time debate, because in the end both programs yield RNs. From some of the other discussions we can see that ADNs and BSNs can both be in management. Its all about the person and how they practice. I am sure that there are good and not so good nurses coming from both programs. But hey, maybe one day the same will be required across the board to be licensed to practice.

ltm

[JOY, RN]

I STARTED MY NURSING EDUCATION WITH A BSN PROGRAM AT A PRIVATE COLLEGE ONLY TO FIND OUT AFTER A COUPLE YEARS I FELT I WAS PAYING A LOT OF MONEY FOR ALL THE "FLUFF". I THEN TRANSFERRED TO AN ADN PROGRAM THINKING I WOULD HAVE AN EASY TIME GETTING THROUGH IT WITH LITTLE EFFORT SINCE I CAME FROM A BSN PROGRAM. THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS WE ALL NEED TO BE PREPARED FOR THE SAME STATE BOARDS AND WHERE I LIVE THERE ISN'T A HIGHER WAGE FOR BSN VS. ADN UNLESS YOU HOLD A DIFFERENT POSITION IE. CLINICAL NURSE SPECIALIST, ETC. MOST OF THE BSN GRADUATES I'VE WORKED WITH LACK COMMON SENSE AND COMPASSION. THEY SPEND MOST OF THEIR TIME DELEGATING TASKS TO OTHERS IN AN EFFORT NOT TO GET THEIR HANDS DIRTY, STILL COLLECTING A PAYCHECK. ALSO, OUR NAME BADGES END WITH "RN" NOT "BSN" OR "ADN". I HOPE I GOT MY POINT ACROSS WITHOUT SEEMING HOSTILE.

[This message has been edited by JOY, RN (edited February 24, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by JOY, RN (edited February 24, 2000).]