BSN vs. ADN income disparity - page 6
I just went to a job fair and got a sheet from Loyola Hospital in Chicago. They pay their new ADN's 24.20. They pay new BSNs only 24.50 an hour. That does not make me happy at all. I am... Read More
Mar 25, '07I say this to you with the deepest respect and admiration of your drive and determination as evidenced by your credentials that will eventually take you as far as you want. A degree however does not make a nurse.
This has been a point of contention for a long time. As a Staff Development Coord, starting at the bottom 30 years ago as an orderly (Nurses Assistant), I believe I am qualified to speak to this issue. This philosophy of genius-higher educated persons should earn more out of the gate, will be your undoing.
The culture of the profession does need to provide incentive for expanding one's horizons, however, after all my years, I would rather have an LPN who is clinically sound than a genius who isn't. The experienced nurse is worth his/her weight in gold.
Why do you suppose there is heasitency to hire inexperienced new grads, and a salary range based on experience?
My advice to you, with all due respect to your accomplishments, do the time, take the pay and LEARN to be a NURSE who will be clinically sound as an advocate for the patient instead of looking for a paycheck. Of course money is important, but do not base your career on it. You will be all the better for it. In time with your goal always in mind, you will earn the respect of your peers, the recognition you deserve and the pay you will genuinely earn.:spin:Last edit by lavahawaii on Mar 25, '07
Mar 25, '07thank you Lavahawaii for your thoughts. I have been in clinicals and I am ABSOLUTELY LOVING bedside nursing. I love advocating for my patient, being present when the MDs come in with their entourage. I'll interrupt an intern if he is talking to patient if I don't understand or if I get signs that my patient doesn't understand what he is saying. I just want to send out warmest wishes to all of you hard working bedside nurses and nurses of every color and education level! What we do is amazing, we all should get paid more and at this point in my education, I really don't care how much I get paid, as long as it is at least the market rate. Even though I will be an NP in about 4 years, I plan on doing at least 1 full year of bedside--maybe medsurge or anything because I think that bedside nursing is the foundation of ALL nursing, whether you are a nurse manager, MDS coordinator and never see an actual patient or NP. Thanks for the attitude adjustment guys! I am having a blast at the bedside and have nothing but profound respect for all nurses and nurses aides---MDs and their Know it all but have no bedside manner interns--we'll save that for another thread.
Mar 26, '07You are quite welcome, Romie. Just a parting thought. When you finally do get where you are going, and you've gotten yourself in a jam, it will be a nurse who gets you out of it. Please remember who you are and where you came from.
Good luck and stay sharp.
AlohaLast edit by lavahawaii on Mar 26, '07
Mar 26, '07I work at a level I, magnet facility and there is no pay difference between ADN and BSN.
Mar 27, '07Quote from Myxel67Sometimes the income difference is only 10 cents per hour. But if you are both working as RN's, and basically doing the same work, there shouldn't be a difference in pay. The advantage of a BSN is that you have access to many more opportunities and higher level positions than the ADN.
From what I have seen with friends who have gotten BSN's is that the additional education is more in statistics, nursing research, and public health issues.
The ADN program I attended had a higher NCLEX pass rate than the 4 year BSN program at a state university here.
You have stated exactly what I was told when I did my own "market research" before choosing which route to take. I talked to many local nurses, who told me that they would rather work with grads from the local 2-yr program vs. grads from the local 4-yr program. Across the board, they felt that the former grads were better with patients; the latter with paperwork. As well, our local 2-yr program has a much higher NCLEX pass rate than the 4-yr. Because of this information, I chose to obtain my ADN, get my job, then do my transition to BSN (mostly online) while "proving" myself for a couple of years. All of this said, if the ADN's are doing the same job, yes, I agree they should receive the same (or close to the same) pay. My reasons for wanting to continue? More job opportunities, not more pay (for the same job).
Mar 27, '07Quote from RaElrAIt's all local. All the ADN schools here have lower NCLEX pass rates that the BSN school, but that's because the BSN school has the highest pass rate in the state - usually 97 or 100%. They had two students fail last year - usually it's only one or zero.You have stated exactly what I was told when I did my own "market research" before choosing which route to take. I talked to many local nurses, who told me that they would rather work with grads from the local 2-yr program vs. grads from the local 4-yr program. Across the board, they felt that the former grads were better with patients; the latter with paperwork. As well, our local 2-yr program has a much higher NCLEX pass rate than the 4-yr. Because of this information, I chose to obtain my ADN, get my job, then do my transition to BSN (mostly online) while "proving" myself for a couple of years. All of this said, if the ADN's are doing the same job, yes, I agree they should receive the same (or close to the same) pay. My reasons for wanting to continue? More job opportunities, not more pay (for the same job).
Anyway, I'm taking the ADN to BSN route as well for job opportunties, not to get more money at the bedside, which I won't. Good luck to you. I'm sure you're finding it to be a little more than just a few extra courses.
Mar 29, '07One hospital I interviewed at does not have a differential (and this is a union hospital). The other two did have a differential, it was 2% more for a BSN and I believe 5% more for an MSN. I think this is pretty typical, at least for my area.
Quote from romieI just went to a job fair and got a sheet from Loyola Hospital in Chicago. They pay their new ADN's 24.20. They pay new BSNs only 24.50 an hour. That does not make me happy at all.
I am currently enrolled in a direct entry program for people with degrees in other fields. My classmates are geniuses--many are researchers, most have masters degrees and we even have a girl in my class who has a PhD in Molecular Biology. We are training to become Nurse Practitioners. I personally have over 10 years of healthcare experience as an unlicensed assistive personell or healthcare manager and you are telling me that after all is said and done, you are still only going to pay me .30 an hour more than an ADN nurse once I enter the workforce as an RN while continuing with my NP education? I am definitely not applying to Loyola if they care so little about education.
Every member of the nursing faculty at my university and every nurse who is teaching me has a PhD in nursing... Do you see where I am getting at? You don't necessarily get this preparation as an ADN student...
Mar 30, '07Hi! I have been a nurse for almost 22 years. I obtained my BSN 2 years ago with NO change in my pay at all. It is frustrating BUT, I am so proud of my degree that it actually isn't the money at all...BUT it can be frustrating to know that education isn't really always valued...
Apr 5, '07@ the hospital I work for in Florida, there is no pay difference between adn/bsn......you only need bsn to go higher such as mgmt
Apr 7, '07Quote from romieRomie...I am getting ready to start nursing school as a career changer.My point about the student who was a practicing JD is that we are a smart group of students. And I happen to be going to one of the top Colleges of Nursing int the country. Sorry about my "attitude", I am actually a really nice person in real life, I come from a marginalized segment of society, worked my a$$ at universities for the past 8 years, I come from a very low Socioeconomic status, so my "attitude" is really me just being mad at other people for selling themselves short. Quit defending allowing nurses to get low pay.
I don't have a degree at all, but a long work history, however, in my last job I had a very high position in a business sector where those with MBA's were floored at the salary that I offered them for jobs...because the work they were actually doing, did not require an MBA, but yet they wanted to be compensated for it. They were doing no different work, at no greater leve, than those with lower levels of education. You can almost imagine how my subordinates treated me when they found out I didn't have a degree at all.
The point that I am trying to make, is that education doesn't always = more $$$ in every job.
There is a decent difference between LPN and RN pay, virtually no difference ( to start ) in RN and BSN pay, but another jump when you get an NP..and an NP is my goal as well, and even I was a little shocked at what the starting rate was...I had assumed it was closer to $100K per year, but I was wrong.
When you are beginning your career...it's much different than if you were 10 years into it. Your education WILL pay off, but you can't expect everything to be handed to you at once...it will all take time. Education cannot substitute for experience.
If I was comparing medical expertise between a new RN and new Physician...my money would be on the Physician, but if you have an RN with 10 years of experience against a new Physician...my money will be on the RN...any day of the week. There is only so much, you'll learn in school, the rest you have to learn by doing.
Apr 7, '07Where I come from all the nurses are paid the same starting rate with a ADN or BSN. If we had known (ADN) that it takes 5 years to finish the program with such a long waiting list I think a lot of us would have just started out BSN right from the start. But to be honest with you, you get more "bang for your buck" whn you first start out in nursing with an ADN. Less financial obligations and many hospitals in the area have programs right in the facilities for RN-BSN for free. We also get more clinical "floor time" than the BSN grads to around here and are the first ones to get hired beacuse of this. Most ADN students are older with children and are into their second career. There is only one diploma program in the area and it is more than 3x's the amount that you pay for at a community college. BSN's are more well-rounded. They have more history and english but the core nursing subjects tat are taught are all the same. By the way we have the highest pass rate for NCLEX in the state
Apr 12, '07I just wanted to add my two cents concerning the whole debate.
My first thought was that you picked the wrong career if your main concern was money. Those of us in health related careers know that one will not become wealthy my any means. We are in health care because our goal in life, was to help people.
As far as degrees where one can make as much from an associates or bachelors is dental hygiene, which is where I have been for 14 years. And it makes no difference which one we have. We all do the exact same thing. In fact, with my associates I'll be taking a pay cut to get my ADN! I earn $30 an hour being a hygienist but I have reached a point where I really feel compelled to do more with my life.
I'm in prenursing courses now and will be starting clinicals in the fall at a community college, where all the professors hold masters. Each and every day I hope that I can learn and have the knowledge that these people have. Every nurse has the upmost respect from me regardless of degree.
Some of this forum has made me sad really.
As far as choices on where we get our education, many of us who choose ADN programs have our reasons too. We do have current careers and we are married with children. I'm in my mid-30's and quite frankly, I don't have 4 years to devote to get started! :uhoh21: I'll never get to retire!
I'm not sure what hospitals offer where you are at, but most hospitals here will pay for you to complete your BSN with a short term work commitment. A BSN would be a huge financial burden for me to pay that we cannot afford right now. Which is why, I want to begin my career then complete a bachelors while I gain experience. Who knows where I'll go from there.
I wish the best of luck to anyone that is pursuing a nursing degree. Every program is hard and as others have said, we will all be the same shade of green.
Good luck to all of you prenurses out there and to all the RN's who posted, continue to be inspirational!
Apr 13, '07This mentality is the exact reason we are in the position we are in....
I did not choose nursing so that I could be the angel in the eyes of the sick and needy. I chose this career because I am intrigued by the human body and because I am willing to be responsible for the lives of others to make a comfortable living wage. I enjoy working with pts, I enjoy teaching others how to care for their newborns, I enjoy helping parents cope with their emotions when their baby is very sick...... I enjoy helping parents feel confident in caring for their baby...... I love what I do. But, Those are not the reasons I chose to become a nurse, those are what makes the ungodly amount of responsibility and stress worth while.
I am in this profession for all of the right reasons.
Until you are a working member of this profession, you can not even begin to contemplate what the RIGHT reasons are.
Dont mean to be snippy.... just a hot issue with me.