BSN Only Is A Wall Street Scam

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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The push for Magnet status and BSN Only is rooted firmly in fraud. As usual, this Wall Street scam has many players and angles. To those that study propaganda and disaster capitalism; the latest from the CEO class is testament to how dumbed down the average worker has become in America.

I went to NSG school 16 years ago. The cost for a ADN at a major university, minus grants, was about 12 grand. My alma mater wants over 50 grand for me to finish my BSN. A full 90% of that BSN will be done on line. That my fellow brothers and sisters is a CEO wet dream come true. Very little staff or facility cost to eat into that profit margin.

One of reasons CEOs want BSNs is because of the student debt factor. We all know what kind of work nursing is. Short staffing is the norm since I became a nurse. Ancillary staff is always in short supply and often has a less than perfect attitude. The short term profit motive takes priority over patient care and safety today, so much so that managers don't even try to hide it or make excuses for it. We know what this leads to, another shortage. The CEOs want to the next generation of RNs deep in debt. RNs that owe 40 to 100 grand (common with the cost of education today) in student loans will think twice before leaving NSG to have kids or find work in less demanding professions. Try to unionize ?? Not too many RNs will rock the boat on any issue that bucks the bottom line. Try to improve staffing or patient care ?? My loan cost about 120 a month for 10 years, the new RNs will fight for very little thanks to the cost of school today and the CEOs know it.

Online schools are the biggest players in this scam. Online education schools can cost as much as an ivy league school, with the taxpayer footing the bill. Online schools offer many degrees to students across the country. NSG plays a major role in keeping these failed schools green with your tax dollars. Online schools are a failure across the board.

Most students that in-role will never graduate. The few students that do graduate will find their degree worthless in today's job market. The default rate on the student loans paid to these schools will make even the most jaded taxpayer want to vomit. NSGs role in all this is simple. Online schools are forced to operate under a 90/10 rule. If online schools can get just 10% of students to graduate or just 10% to find a job, the online schools can continue to get government (taxpayer) money for the other 90%. Non BSN RNs are proven students. Non BSN RNs have a track record of success in academics and will more than likely finish any online program. Non BSN RNs when they enter these programs most likely have a job and will have that job when they graduate. Are you putting this together yet ?? The push for the BSN Only is a propaganda ploy from Wall Street funded PR firms. Edward Brenays would be proud. The more non BSN RNs that attend online schools, the more students the online schools can in-role and get paid for. It is important to mention that the 90/10 rule was forced on the schools by congress because of the dismal default rate. The schools win, the Wall Street Investors win, hospital CEOs win, the non nursing students that drop out lose and the American taxpayers lose. NSG will lose as well. Workers that are trapped because of debt become slaves to the greed of the system. The greed of this system will hurt the patients we care for.

Specializes in Trauma, ER, ICU, CCU, PACU, GI, Cardiology, OR.

interesting post to say the least~

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.

I have met some over educated idiots in my 34 years of being a nurse. Degrees cannot make up for common sense and beside experience. I was an ASN/ADN grad and I have worked with some of the best physicians in the country and not one of them has EVER asked me how many degrees I possess. Although, I do now possess a BSN....I don't feel it advanced my practice of nursing or the bedside experience I already possessed. I graduated with my BSN degree from a top college in the country . I worked for one of the top trauma centers in the country and became one heck of a Trauma flight nurse. I KNOW the I am one of the best nurses I know.....along with the crew that had my back..

However, I do think that some of these for profit online schools have dumbed down the ADN program. How can you not have pharmacology, pathophysiology and micro? How can you learn to be a good nurse when your clinical is a computer screen and not concurrent to your present theory. Some states are making that isn't acceptable and are not allowing these grads sit for the boards in those state nor are they allowing licensing by endorsement.

The academics in the push for job security has removed vital courses in the ADN program to promote the "BSN required" agenda. What needs to be remembered is that nurses were nurses before there was the "BSN". When I applying nursing school, it was said then that all diploma programs will be closed within 5 years and they would no longer be able to sit for the boards. That was 31 years ago.......and it has yet to happen. You cannot qualify the nurse by degrees...it's their ability to learn and apply that knowledge to the bedside for the patients benefits.

I have never met a family that snubbed a ADN nurse and insisted to me , as the administrator on call, that they require a BSN nurse to care for their loved one.

Long Sigh.....as long as there are different entry level degrees to sit for the nursing boards there will be this competition of who remains the better or more capable to care for the patients. I do believe that it should probably go to a BSN ,level as we move forward. It's willingness to learn, have empathy, and experience that makes the nurse.

Until then "we" ( the collective we) all will have to agree to disagree........it's my theory the hospitals/academics keep bedside nurses fighting for if we got along.....just think what we could do if we banned together.

Just a thought.:) We are all professionals and need to get along

I enjoyed the OP's novel ideas - some of which I had never considered before. Not to say I agree with all of them, but they provide food for thought.

One issue that seems to have been missed - the positive impact of BSN staff upon patient outcomes. This has been a consistent finding in large-scale studies over the last few years. In addition to Aiken's (many) studies here are a couple more.

Effects of Hospital Care Environment on Patient Mortality and Nurse OutcomesJAMA Network | JAMA: The Journal of the American Medical Association | Educational Levels of Hospital Nurses and Surgical Patient Mortality

I also heartily agree that many of the commercial (investor owned) online RN-BSN programs are dubious. Recent news out of academia indicates that some of these "universities" spend 4 times more on recruitment than on actual faculty... 'nuff said.

I am not a huge fan of the 'rush to Magnet' right now. The initial research findings seem to have gotten lost in the hype as it has turned into a major revenue stream for ANA. But the essential fact remains, increased percentage of BSN staff have a positive impact on clinical quality.

It is my understanding the WGU is NOT publicly funded (government) entity, but does claim to be non-profit. Their tuition is less than some, but still waaaay higher than traditional education. I don't have enough info on outcomes to form an opinion on them yet.

Keep up the dialogue!

I looked at your profile. More staff with a BSN means nothing to patient care. If a floor should have 8 nurses on duty and only 4 are on duty, which is routine today, then the care suffers. I have worked on floors with both percentages of nurses. When ADNs work short the care is bad. When BSNs work short the care is just as bad. The study's are suspect. There is no shortage of nurses willing to sell-out their fellow nurse today for the almighty buck. I trust nurses with vested interest in "nursing education" the least.

In my ADN program, there are a number of students who hold master's degrees in various fields. In fact, there is one JD. (If you think the nursing job market is tight, you should see the lawyers' job market.) If the additional courses required for a BSN don't directly apply to bedside nursing.

I plan to continue and pursue a BSN because I am personally interested in research. There are some useful courses in the curriculum, and the reality of research and academics dictates having the right degrees. If my current interest were purely in bedside/visiting/etc. nursing, I'm not sure how important the extra classes would really be.

Oh, please. We all know doctors and families couldn't give a rat's you-know-what whether or not their RN has a BSN or an ADN. They care about their working experience and their competency.

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
I looked at your profile. More staff with a BSN means nothing to patient care. If a floor should have 8 nurses on duty and only 4 are on duty, which is routine today, then the care suffers. I have worked on floors with both percentages of nurses. When ADNs work short the care is bad. When BSNs work short the care is just as bad. The study's are suspect.

They are, but trying to point that out is a losing battle. It's repeated constantly by the academic/marketing power nexus. Or people don't know what "associated with" means.

Specializes in nursing education.
IMO, the problems are the proprietary (for-profit) schools and the overall inflation in the cost of higher education across the US, not the general concept of higher education for nurses. I agree with bubblejet50 that it does make a difference how much various schools charge for nursing programs. I would be running, not walking, away from any school that wanted me to pay $50k for a BSN completion program. I completed a BSN at a respectable state university program for

I agree that the cost of higher education in general is getting out of control in the US, but no one is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing him or her to take out huge amounts of student loans. People are free to make choices for themselves, even really stupid choices. I hope that the government will clamp down even harder on the proprietary schools (I would love to see them all put out of business), but the OP's main thesis sounds a little "over the top" to me.

There is nothing wrong with advancing your education. What is wrong? Schools overcharging hopeful students and defrauding taxpayers via unethical practices, and people thinking they are better than others by virtue of having more education. Maybe you went to a better or more expensive school, maybe you have more letters after your name, but an RN has the same scope of practice as any other RN.

Rickbar is misinterpreting the 90/10 rule. That rule does NOT say that only 10% have to graduate (or get a job) for the school to admit the other 90%. That rule says that schools must get at least 10% of their income from non-govenment sources. At least 10% of their tuition, etc. must be paid by the students themselves (or from their employers, etc.) Essentially, the government is saying that if individual people aren't willing to pay at least some of the cost for the product, they are not going to finance it completely. Many people are now urging the law to be changed so to decrease the schools' dependene on tax-payer money. "If an educational program is not good enough to attract private money, there must be something wrong with it."

I am not a fan of many of the practices of for-profit schools -- and I am one of those who would like to see much stronger regulation of the education industry, the quality of education, and its financial practices. But if we are going to discuss it, let's get the facts right.

We also need to separate the issues of educational quality, education financing, and BSN requirements. While there are some linkages between them, there are also some distinctions between them that need to be acknowledged.

You are correct, my mistake. However, the end result, need for and use of the 90/10 is the same.

Susie....i said I see little difference in cares because in omaha new grad bsn's have less clinical experience than new adn grads. I was doing complete cares on 4 patients as a student in clinicals and my friend in her senior year in a bsn program was doing complete cares on one. When I was precepting bsn nurses they cared for patients no different than adn nurses I precepted. This may just be true in my area but nurses here have loan forgiveness but degrees here cost $3500 at one adn school, $7000 at the other with completion programs costing $5000-30000. Straight bsn programs cost 120000 at the private college, 20000 at the public college, and 60000 at the other 2 colleges. Our nurses have loan forgiveness programs and many do not have a lot of debt. All of our cities (12) hospitals are at magnet status. I think that there are a lot of options for bsn completion here only one being online that we really do not see that problem here. I feel that the nursing problem in our area for sub par care comes from the ever popular understaffing and from the hospital more than the schools and debt over nurses heads

Susie....i said I see little difference in cares because in omaha new grad bsn's have less clinical experience than new adn grads. I was doing complete cares on 4 patients as a student in clinicals and my friend in her senior year in a bsn program was doing complete cares on one. When I was precepting bsn nurses they cared for patients no different than adn nurses I precepted. This may just be true in my area but nurses here have loan forgiveness but degrees here cost $3500 at one adn school, $7000 at the other with completion programs costing $5000-30000. Straight bsn programs cost 120000 at the private college, 20000 at the public college, and 60000 at the other 2 colleges. Our nurses have loan forgiveness programs and many do not have a lot of debt. All of our cities (12) hospitals are at magnet status. I think that there are a lot of options for bsn completion here only one being online that we really do not see that problem here. I feel that the nursing problem in our area for sub par care comes from the ever popular understaffing and from the hospital more than the schools and debt over nurses heads

bubblejet50, thank you for your reply. I am understanding you are saying that although bsn's have less student clinical experience than adn's in your area, both bsn's and adn's care for the same type of patients during orientation. Thank you for clarifying.

Susie....yes they do care for the same patients here.

Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
bubblejet50, thank you for your reply. I am understanding you are saying that although bsn's have less student clinical experience than adn's in your area, both bsn's and adn's care for the same type of patients during orientation. Thank you for clarifying.

Diploma/ADN/BSN are ALL nurses. They ALL sit for the same NCLEX as the "BSN" nurse. You ALL get the same nursing license that allows you ALL to practice nursing and care for ALL the same patients.

Some school have better clinical lab expereinces than other programs. Many of these "for profit" school that have popped up (both ADN/BSN) have dummed down programs and don't even have concurrent clinicals.

But, once a nurse has her license......we are all nurses of equal standing, it is the expereince that is lacking.

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