BSN as entry into practice; why we decided against it. - page 16

by MunoRN

25,142 Views | 240 Comments

While hopefully avoiding stoking the ADN - BSN debate unnecessarily, I thought I'd share my experience with my state's consideration of BSN as entry into practice, as well as the BSN-in-10 initiative. About 3 years ago I sat... Read More


  1. 0
    Where did you get the idea that 220 hours is more than I did? That's not even true...so I'm sure I didn't say it.

    Between you making things up, forgetting what you even say in your own posts (ex: 45 hours is the difference), and people not answering questions while wanting theirs answered, this is getting boring.

    I'm going to use my awesome critical thinking skills I developed through my totally useless education and bow out now.

    Peace!
  2. 0
    If we are assuming education is progessive, would a new ADN be more up-to-date than a BSN acquired 10 years ago?
  3. 3
    Quote from Ntheboat2
    Some people don't consider minimal education and the inability to spell anything as diversity or strength.

    Embarrassment? Maybe.
    Rude.
  4. 1
    Ok...I've looked at some of the suggested sites, as well as done a little research of my own on this matter. This is what I've found so far...

    There are quite a bit of papers that suggest that the BSN should be the starting point of entry. Yet, none offered a solid reason why it should be. It just seems like-to me, anyway-that they suggest the BSN as entry simpy because it can't hurt, or because "More education is always good." I just couldn't believe how so many "Independent studies" support the BSN yet can't find a reason to back their support up. Or if they do have a good reason, they are reluctant to share it. (BTW, I didn't include the sites here, but all you really have to do is google ADN VS BSN and they will pop up). One of the sites provided by another poster did indeed have one line that claimed that surveys showed that ADN Nurses (didn't specify new grad here) were more than 9x more prone to violations than BSN Nurses. Again though, nothing was offered to back that up. they just say "Surveys of disciplined nurses state that ADN trained Nurses are more likely to screw up." In fact this was everything that long article said that directly condemned the ADN Nurse "The survey also revealed that nurses who had only an associate degree as their basic preparation were more than nine times as likely as those with a bachelor of science degree to be charged with violations." This was the total of the "evidence" used to back up the ADN being incompetent as an entry point claim. And not that I'm just looking to pick apart anything that does not agree with my stance, but even if these surveys do exist, they were filled out by Nurses who were considered "Disciplined-meaning that they were at least having twice as many violations as the average-and were likely looking for whatever excuse they could think of to take some blame off of themselves. Not saying this is absolute, but does deserve consideration.

    To be fair, The article did say that BSN grads were better versed in Critical thinking, but when I looked up the BSN degree sheet online (UNLV) I saw no real classes that I would think would help my critical thinking skills. At least not anything that wasn't covered by my school's ADN program. But then again, one thing that ALL the Pro BSN articles did have in common was that the BSN grads were better critical thinkers. So is it true? I dunno, maybe. But I'm just not seeing it by looking at the degree sheet. Perhaps a combination of their classes leads to these better critical thinking skills? It's possible.
    PMFB-RN likes this.
  5. 2
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    Ok...I've looked at some of the suggested sites, as well as done a little research of my own on this matter. This is what I've found so far...

    One of the sites provided by another poster did indeed have one line that claimed that surveys showed that ADN Nurses (didn't specify new grad here) were more than 9x more prone to violations than BSN Nurses. Again though, nothing was offered to back that up. they just say "Surveys of disciplined nurses state that ADN trained Nurses are more likely to screw up." In fact this was everything that long article said that directly condemned the ADN Nurse "The survey also revealed that nurses who had only an associate degree as their basic preparation were more than nine times as likely as those with a bachelor of science degree to be charged with violations." This was the total of the "evidence" used to back up the ADN being incompetent as an entry point claim. And not that I'm just looking to pick apart anything that does not agree with my stance, but even if these surveys do exist, they were filled out by Nurses who were considered "Disciplined-meaning that they were at least having twice as many violations as the average-and were likely looking for whatever excuse they could think of to take some blame off of themselves. Not saying this is absolute, but does deserve consideration.
    I wonder if that might have anything to do with ADN nurses spending more time at the bedside instead of sitting behind a desk? The risks of sitting behind a desk are rather low...
    PMFB-RN and PRICHARILLAisMISSED like this.
  6. 2
    Oh, not that it's extremely relevant, but another thing that EVERY report I researched had in common was that the MAIN factor in high mortality and violation rates was ALWAYS MOST affected by ridiculous Nurse to Patient ratios. The way they made it sound (and It is likely to be true) is that just adding 2 Nurses per shift would be a tremendous help. If this is true then I just don't see why it isn't being done. I percentage wise, how badly would this hurt most hospitals bottom lines?
    redhead_NURSE98! and tewdles like this.
  7. 0
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    Oh, not that it's extremely relevant, but another thing that EVERY report I researched had in common was that the MAIN factor in high mortality and violation rates was ALWAYS MOST affected by ridiculous Nurse to Patient ratios. The way they made it sound (and It is likely to be true) is that just adding 2 Nurses per shift would be a tremendous help. If this is true then I just don't see why it isn't being done. I percentage wise, how
    badly would this hurt most hospitalsbottom lines?
    Hospitals and LTC facilities are always gonna staff as few nurses as
    they can get away with. I think that's a reality that simply isn't going to go away. In fact the only state (as far as I know) to have a 5 pt max for med surg nurses is California. And that is also the state that has, by far, the most powerful statewide RN union. Coincidence?
  8. 4
    I think right now there is a dumming down of the ADN/ASN programs in general in order to prove their point. Many of these drive through programs have minimized the content while maximizing the cost to obtain a nursing degree.

    My niece is in an accelerated BSN program that has the exact same curriculum as my ADN program 34 years ago. Obtaining my BSN added nothing to my practice nor make me a better manager/director for I already had the position and devoted staff members when I "graduated" I got it because the hospital paid for it.

    I actually yearn for the day that this argument ends and there is finally a consistent entry level into nursing. I miss the days of respect for the kind of nurse you are and not the kind of nurse that has many degrees. I take serious issue with direct entry master degrees and graduate with advanced degrees to practice advanced nursing when they haven't spent not one second at the bedside in basic nursing skills....but that is just me.

    These "studies" that show that the BSN is "the better nurse" are propaganda promoting one persons agenda. That has always been my feeling....this thread proves it!
    tntrn, PRICHARILLAisMISSED, nursel56, and 1 other like this.
  9. 0
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    ALL the Pro BSN articles did have in common was that the BSN grads were better critical thinkers. So is it true? I dunno, maybe. But I'm just not seeing it by looking at the degree sheet. Perhaps a combination of their classes leads to these better critical thinking skills? It's possible.
    *** I would really like to know how critical thinking was measured.
  10. 2
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    Oh, not that it's extremely relevant, but another thing that EVERY report I researched had in common was that the MAIN factor in high mortality and violation rates was ALWAYS MOST affected by ridiculous Nurse to Patient ratios. The way they made it sound (and It is likely to be true) is that just adding 2 Nurses per shift would be a tremendous help. If this is true then I just don't see why it isn't being done. I percentage wise, how badly would this hurt most hospitals bottom lines?
    This, I believe, is the gorilla in the room in this discussion.
    Studies have demonstrated that the risk of the patient for poor outcomes is increased each time they experience a poorly staffed nursing shift while hospitalized.

    The education of the nurse MAY affect outcomes, but staffing shortages DO affect outcomes.
    PMFB-RN and nursel56 like this.


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