BSN does not mean better... Sometimes education is overrated!

fighter07 · Jun 18, 2007

I am an RN, BSN, and a foreigner here in the USA my first assignment was a place where racial discrimination is still on the TOP issue. My Tech would asked me to clean my patient, and do things that tech supposed to do, because I am just new and learning culture I just do everything, doing my what you call professional job as a nurse and the job of a tech. BUTTTT, when I learned things, I face my manager and walked out of the hospital and I am happy where I am now. I can not bit them, I don't like to join them either. Thank God I am bless.

Kelly_the_Great · Jun 19, 2007

:roll A new nurse who started at our hospital today was intimidated to perform an admission H&P. She also said she was scared she wouldn't learn "skills" workin' on the night shift.

When she asked me where I got my RN, I told her UT. She said she decided not to do the BSN d/t too many pre-reqs, besides she said, "it's only good to give you a mgmt. job, if you want it."

Then later she proceeds to tell me that the LVNs in her program really struggled b/c they just couldn't "grasp" the upper mgmt concepts.

Little did she know, the nurse she was talkin' to had started out as an LVN. One who obviously had grasped "upper mgmt" concepts enough to obtain a degree whose only addtl. benefit, according to her, was to offer a position of mgmt... :uhoh3:

No offense, (and y'all can get an attitude all you want) but a whole lotta ADNs got a chip on their shoulder. They belittle the LVN as being so far (with only a year's difference in education level) beneath them and in the same breath, discredit the BSN (with two years difference) as being nothing more than a few extra theory classes.

I wish you all could take pride in the achievements and contributions that you've made without discounting everyone elses!

Oh, and btw, if you don't think BSN should be compensated for thier addlt. education, let me ask, do you think you should be makin' so much for than the LVN/LPN? Because, I've now worked both sides of the fence, and let me tell you, as far as "bedside" nursing, there's very little difference. In fact, most of the patients (or students for that matter) can even tell the difference.

So, anyways, y'all let me know what you think...:1luvu:

RNGrad2006 · Jun 19, 2007

:roll A new nurse who started at our hospital today was intimidated to perform an admission H&P. She also said she was scared she wouldn't learn "skills" workin' on the night shift.
When she asked me where I got my RN, I told her UT. She said she decided not to do the BSN d/t too many pre-reqs, besides she said, "it's only good to give you a mgmt. job, if you want it."
Then later she proceeds to tell me that the LVNs in her program really struggled b/c they just couldn't "grasp" the upper mgmt concepts.
Little did she know, the nurse she was talkin' to had started out as an LVN. One who obviously had grasped "upper mgmt" concepts enough to obtain a degree whose only addtl. benefit, according to her, was to offer a position of mgmt...
No offense, (and y'all can get an attitude all you want) but a whole lotta ADNs got a chip on their shoulder. They belittle the LVN as being so far (with only a year's difference in education level) beneath them and in the same breath, discredit the BSN (with two years difference) as being nothing more than a few extra theory classes.
I wish you all could take pride in the achievements and contributions that you've made without discounting everyone elses!
Oh, and btw, if you don't think BSN should be compensated for thier addlt. education, let me ask, do you think you should be makin' so much for than the LVN/LPN? Because, I've now worked both sides of the fence, and let me tell you, as far as "bedside" nursing, there's very little difference. In fact, most of the patients (or students for that matter) can even tell the difference.
So, anyways, y'all let me know what you think...:1luvu:

I like you was an LVN first and then transitioned into an RN program for the 2nd year. I found the 2nd year of nursing had a HUGE difference in expectation than the LVN/LPN level. It may only be another year but there were also additional pre-reqs to get into the 2nd year as well as a transition class. The skills may be similar but I couldn't begin to tell you how much more challenging I found the 2nd year of nursing to the 1st. I also don't think it is fair to say that the ADN has 2 years of education and the BSN has four. An associates degree with all the prereqs is far more than 2 years of school. The actual nursing classes in most BSN programs is not more than in ADN programs. I am currently taking classes to complete my BSN and do see its value and by the time I will be done I will have taken more nursing classes than if I had done the BSN right off the bat. Doing it in layers does take longer but I think it also has an advantage of being able to recognize the value of all levels of nursing better than if you get your BSN right away. I see many accelerated BSN nursing programs in my state and can't see how they can get it all done in such a hurry...makes me wonder sometimes.

decartes · Jun 19, 2007

As for the accelerated program, the admissions process is very selective for candidates already with a second BS who will likely succeed. The program entails all the regular BSN nursing classes and clinical sessions with no summer or winter breaks. Each semester has 14 - 24 credits. That's how it is done in such a short amount of time. I used to wonder about it too but many of the nurses I have seen who have done nursing practice by the book (the "ideal/utopian" way) were from accelerated programs. I'm not sure who their preceptors were but these accelerated BSN nurses offered hope that accelerated programs can produce competent and compassionate nurses

.

I like you was an LVN first and then transitioned into an RN program for the 2nd year. I found the 2nd year of nursing had a HUGE difference in expectation than the LVN/LPN level. It may only be another year but there were also additional pre-reqs to get into the 2nd year as well as a transition class. The skills may be similar but I couldn't begin to tell you how much more challenging I found the 2nd year of nursing to the 1st. I also don't think it is fair to say that the ADN has 2 years of education and the BSN has four. An associates degree with all the prereqs is far more than 2 years of school. The actual nursing classes in most BSN programs is not more than in ADN programs. I am currently taking classes to complete my BSN and do see its value and by the time I will be done I will have taken more nursing classes than if I had done the BSN right off the bat. Doing it in layers does take longer but I think it also has an advantage of being able to recognize the value of all levels of nursing better than if you get your BSN right away. I see many accelerated BSN nursing programs in my state and can't see how they can get it all done in such a hurry...makes me wonder sometimes.

jjjoy, LPN · Jun 19, 2007

[some ADNs] belittle the LVN as being so far (with only a year's difference in education level) beneath them and in the same breath, discredit the BSN (with two years difference) as being nothing more than a few extra theory classes.

I see this as a bit contradictory as well. And to address the argument that most ADN programs actually take at least 3 years complete, there's still a whole extra year of classes for the BSN. Not all of them are specifically nursing courses, but they are relevant (such as an upper division elective psychology course). I'm not saying BSNs should always make more than ADNs if they're in the same position, but it is more than "just a few theory courses" that make up the difference.

if you don't think BSN should be compensated for thier addlt. education.. do you think you should be makin' so much for than the LVN/LPN? Because, I've now worked both sides of the fence, and ... as far as "bedside" nursing, there's very little difference. In fact, most of the patients (or students for that matter) can't even tell the difference.

Good question. We all know that an experienced LPN is a better nurse than a new grad RN in most cases. And the job role is similar enough in some facilities that an LPN can orient an RN to their new job. In many facilities the RN/LPN "team" actually just means that they split the patients and each have their own patient load. The RN may technically or legally be "delegating" but in practice, the LPN is often acting very independently. So why the big differential between LPN and RN pay in most settings? Does it accurately reflect the difference in role and responsibility? I'm sure it does in some places, but I mean generally speaking.

Kelly_the_Great · Jun 20, 2007

I also don't think it is fair to say that the ADN has 2 years of education and the BSN has four.

Hey, RNGrad2006 and jjjoy,

I agree the ADN in most cases definetly has more education than just 2 years. That said, in my neck of the woods the competition is so tough and the spaces are so limited to get into RN programs, that most of the LVN/LPN students have all of their pre-reqs for the ADN program as well. So, their education is far more than just the one year that most people think it is.

I was posting in terms of the general conception that most people have in regards to the ADN's educational level. Actually, I think ADN and BSNs pretty much function on the same level.

Moreover, I think older nurses have gained wisdom through their experiences OJT that you can't get in school (ever compare new grad pay to nurses' pay of 20 years experience?). And I think new grads can bring new knowledge and progressive insight which is of value.

I guess I'm just sayin', I think it takes all of us to provide good patient care, working together, and I don't see the sense in us downgrading eachother in order to promote our own position. Why not take pride in the profession as a whole and the value that everyone offers?

inava · Jun 23, 2007

This is my first entry after recently suscribing to this forum.

What I read in response to this query is the evidence of what's missing in

nursing: namely cohesion and collaboration. We should welcome each other into the profession no matter the road we took to get there. We all have to pass the same licensing exam therefore we all have met the requirements needed to practice. As a profession we have need for all levels of preparation. While bedside nurses care and advocate for clients, nurse executives need to care and advocate for them.

An RN for 27 years

marilynmom, LPN, NP · Jun 24, 2007

Education is never overrated. I can't believe anyone would say that, what a shame on our profession.

I guess I'll add my thoughts to this as well, since everyone else has

One think I think is so silly is the whole debate over the "how much clinical time do you get?". Anyone can learn to do skills, they are NOT hard....I do IV's, foleys, central line draws, ABGs, NG tubes, injections,etc all day long. Skills just come from practice but there is nothing hard about any of them really. Now, I am NOT knocking clinical time whatsoever because it IS important, but it isn't the end all be all of your nursing education. If you see a student who has never done an IM maybe she/he just never got the chance, maybe she/he worked with RN who wouldn't let the students do much (I have worked with nurses like that), I mean who knows ...why not help out and teach? In my BSN program our junior year we get 12 hours clinical a week, senior year we get about 24 hours a week, preceptor ship is another 200 hours I think (somewhere around there). That is all fine and good and I really don't care how much your program gets because that doesn't affect me any, but it is not as important as my theory classes have been (pharm, phatho, critical care, gerontology, med/surg, etc etc etc etc). I can see this clearly now that I am working in an ICU. I really don't think my program is better or worse than anyone elses that is for sure.

I think knowing your disease process is soooo important! Being able to critically think when your patient is in resp distress (for example) is vital. I really could care less how fast you can put in a Foley or how many of them you have done, if (and I've seen this before!!) your patient has a K of 8 and having arrhythmias you better know what is going on, and what to do. Anytime me or anyone needs help with a skill, all you have to do is ask (some people as we know are better than others with IVs), but you really have to know your stuff and that doesn't necessarily come from time in clinical time while in school.

Also why do people knock classes like Leadership or Research or classes like that (I hear people on this site saying how stupid some of these "management" classes are)? Since when is education a bad thing? I don't get that at all. Nurses need to be more involved in things like research, every nurse needs to have spend some time critiquing research reports and being a leader (that is a sign of a professional no?). Nursing is so much more than skills. It just seems that so many students get so hung up on clinical hours where there is just sooo much more to it than that, and each floor is different in how they do skills anyways. Some floors you will never give an IM (we don't really in the ICU where I work or vary rarely).

If your smart and willing to learn, your going to be a great nurse! It is the nurses that come out of school thinking they know it all who scare me--not the nurses who come out of school with only putting in one foley!

But who knows maybe I am wrong about all this :) I just think nurses rock and that is the bottom line. I just wish people really knew a nurses education and what we did ya know?

Kelly_the_Great · Jun 24, 2007

Also why do people knock classes like Leadership or Research or classes like that (I hear people on this site saying how stupid some of these "management" classes are)?

Yeah, Marilynmom, why do ppl do that? It's like they are playing right into the hands of those who would rather we be nothing but drones that just follow "orders," ya know?

Personally, I pursued the BSN so that if given the opportunity, I could advocate for nurses - ALL NURSES, w/o finding myself up against a closed door! Because I feel that we can't effectively help our patients unless we can help eachother.

I mean, I just got my RN license and am working as a new nurse to the hospital environment. And even now, just as I'm sure many of you do, I help my fellow nurses. It may be so small, like transcribing another nurses new meds on the MAR if I have time and she's totally overwhelmed or gettin' in there and helping clean a patient that needs it, whatever. But as opportunities increase, I will seize them any and every time I can further the support of my nursing colleagues.

hoglover · Jun 25, 2007

I am new to this site, but am proud to say that I just graduated from LPN school and am gearing up to take the NCLEX. I am currently trying to decide on whether I want to go to an LPN-BSN, or LPN-ADN. I have all of my prerequisites and am 37 years old. I dont want to waste time, but would like to get as much education as possible asap. I have spent 12 years in the Army and now amy ready for my nursing career. As for, why the debate and the backbiting? Come on you guys, we all know why! We are women! Im sorry, but I am a woman and I will be the first to admit that women are jealous, backbiting, two-faced, spiteful and down right mean to each other! Sad, but true. Situations like these are the only times that I EVER EVER EVER envy men! :lol2: :jester:

steelcityrn, RN · Jun 25, 2007

Education is not overrated, its important for your career. If your trying to say you do not need to have a bsn to be a good nurse, thats probably true. But no matter what your profession, education is important!