BSN as entry into practice; why we decided against it.

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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While hopefully avoiding stoking the ADN - BSN debate unnecessarily, I thought I'd share my experience with my state's consideration of BSN as entry into practice, as well as the BSN-in-10 initiative.

About 3 years ago I sat on a council charged with evaluating and making recommendations on the educational requirements for Nursing. We worked closely with both employers and schools of Nursing to evaluate needs and capabilities and to coordinate the two.

We initially reviewed the evidence, most notably Linda Aiken's work on the relationship between educational level and quality of Nursing care. On the surface her work seems to clearly support the BSN model, however upon closer inspection we could not show that improved Nursing specific outcomes were due to higher proportions of BSN nurses, at least in terms of a BSN being causative rather than just correlative. While her studies did show a relationship between better outcomes and Hospitals with a higher proportion of BSN Nurses, she failed to adequately account for the fact that Hospitals with higher proportions of BSN nurses also have many factors that would be likely to contribute to better outcomes. For instance, predominately BSN hospitals (teaching hospitals) tend to have better staffing ratios, better support systems, better funding, and are more likely to be "early adopters" of practice improvements. Aiken's accounting for the effects of these differences were grossly inadequate. When her data was properly corrected for these differences, there was no clear difference between ADN and BSN prepared Nurses in areas examined.

We then looked at differences in curriculum between ADN and BSN programs and found surprisingly few differences. Pre-requisites varied among both ADN and BSN programs, with the only consistent difference being that BSN programs required a Nutrition class. We had assumed that the Statistics requirement was also a universal difference, but what we found was that this was only different in older ADN programs, newer ADN programs carried the same statistics requirement with some requiring a higher level of statistics than even the top BSN program in the state. In the program itself, the curriculum is closely regulated by both accreditation groups and the State Board, both of which hold the curriculum of both types of program to the same standards, minus the BSN program's additional leadership and community health classes.

Considering the minimal differences between ADN and BSN curriculum, we questioned whether there might be differences related to the 'caliber' of student admitted to each type of program, we were particularly surprised by what we found. Two of the ADN programs in the state required a previous bachelor's degree to even apply, more were considering this. The typical minimum GPA in core prerequisites for competitive entry ADN programs was 3.8, for BSN programs it was 3.6.

The biggest factor was what we would need to do to move to only BSN programs. Our current BSN programs already have a shortage of clinical spots, so expanding our current BSN programs was not an option. The only viable option was to take our ADN programs and simply start calling them BSN programs by adding community health and leadership classes and requiring the additional "general" credits needed to fulfill the credit requirements of a bachelors. To do this, community colleges would have to partner with Universities who would then grant BSN's for a (large) fee. This would essentially mean the only difference between an ADN and BSN would be 8 core credits, about 35 general credits, and about $18,000.

The other concern with limiting RN education opportunities to BSN programs by expanding BSN programs was the demographic makeup of Nursing students. More than half of those currently going into Nursing are "second career" students. These students typically are not in positions where attending a direct BSN program is feasible. In my state, BSN programs are only available in two urban areas. It's much easier for an 18 year old to drop everything and move to one of these two areas than it is for someone who has kids in school, owns a home, has a spouse with an immovable job, etc. As a result we were concerned about the effect such a drastic change in Nursing student demographics might have.

A survey of employers found no glaring preference for BSN prepared Nurses in my state, in fact we were surprised at the number of Hospitals that expressed a preference for ADN new grads as they found their bedside training requirements were less, this was likely due to the limitations in clinical experience in BSN programs. Only one hospital in the state expressed a preference for BSN graduates, although they did not require a BSN, this was the Hospital associated with the state's largest BSN program. They did express that their preference for BSN's was somewhat self-serving; when part of the job market is "BSN-only", it helps maintain demand for a degree that's fairly similar yet typically 400% more expensive than the ADN option. This would seem to shed some light on why "BSN-only" employers are primarily hospitals associated with Universities.

In the end we determined that we could not support the goal of BSN as entry to practice at this time. We did however endorse the concept of BSN-in-10 through ADN to BSN programs. Although we didn't go so far as to advocate BSN-in-10 as a requirement. This was partly due to reviewing North Dakota's failed BSN-in-10 attempt, as well as the demographics involved in the Nursing workforce. The number of experienced Nurses who leave the workforce is a real problem. This attrition often occurs between 5 and 10 years. Adding a requirement that will take additional time as well as cost, in many cases, up to half of their yearly salary would too often serve as the primary factor in a decision to leave Nursing. There are huge advantages to additional schooling after a period of time in the workforce, one could argue advantages that exceed that of direct BSN programs, however it was not felt that the loss of experienced Nurses outweighed those advantages. But when feasible, all ADN Nurses should be actively encouraged to pursue an ADN to BSN.

As a BSN prepared Nurse, I was expecting confirmation that my money was spell spent, and I'm not saying it necessarily wasn't, however many of the assumptions I held may have been overstated or just incorrect. For many, direct BSN programs are worth the expense, for other's it's not. What's most important is that students can make an informed decision.

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
Lots of students would love to "cram" a BSN into 3 years. Why not? You say yourself they get the same credit hours. So why would they be less like to land a job? Many of us are quite capable of juggling our time and of taking on a demanding, full school schedule. I went to a PN program that was Monday through Friday 8am to 5pm. I also worked full time third shift. I passed with a 3.8 GPA. I'm confused as to why you think condensing a BSN into 3 years is an undesirable and/or unrealistic thing.

I don't think I ever implied that it wasn't a good idea. I'm just saying that it's not going to save anyone money because they're taking the same number of credits. From what I read on this website and see posted at my hospital, jobs are NOT easy to come by so what's the big deal that you graduate a year earlier? Esmee 12 said in her post above that a 3 year program allowed students to enter the work force a year earlier than their peers. So what? You're not graduating with a competitive edge. If you're really lucky, you will be able to spend an extra year working. I've been a nurse for 40 years. Believe me, when you look back, another year of working as a nurse doesn't seem like such big money-maker in the grand scheme of things.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Critical Care, Public Health.

This is so sad to see how nursing education is watered down to a level of pure incompetence. Nursing is the only profession that have such low educational standards for clinical practice. Teachers, social workers, psychologists etc, all have to obtain a master's degree to practice with their license. Speaking as a nursing professor, many of the students are using the profession as a tool, just to get ahead. The desire and passion are absent, which can contribute to inadequate care.

I want all licensed registered nurses to acquire a BSN to practice. This higher level of learning can enhance the level of the profession by enabling nurses to integrate research and theory into their level of practice. If all 50 states would enforce this law, you would see a change in the delivery of care for the better.

I don't think I ever implied that it wasn't a good idea. I'm just saying that it's not going to save anyone money because they're taking the same number of credits. From what I read on this website and see posted at my hospital, jobs are NOT easy to come by so what's the big deal that you graduate a year earlier? Esmee 12 said in her post above that a 3 year program allowed students to enter the work force a year earlier than their peers. So what? You're not graduating with a competitive edge. If you're really lucky, you will be able to spend an extra year working. I've been a nurse for 40 years. Believe me, when you look back, another year of working as a nurse doesn't seem like such big money-maker in the grand scheme of things.
Fair enough. I agree that shaving a year off shouldn't/wouldn't save any on tuition if the credit hours are the same. That makes sense. My point was, though, that cutting a year out of the equation is a HUGE deal to many of us. Some of us really do dislike school and one less year of school is, well, one less year. Many would gladly take as many credits at once as possible to shorten the length of time in school. It's doable. I get annoyed when some people (not necessarily you) claim that this is "impossible" or will result in bad nurses. People who say such things are those who cant handle such a demanding schedule. Don't hate on those of us who can.
This is so sad to see how nursing education is watered down to a level of pure incompetence. Nursing is the only profession that have such low educational standards for clinical practice. Teachers, social workers, psychologists etc, all have to obtain

a master's degree to practice with their license. Speaking as a nursing professor, many of the students are using the profession as a tool, just to get ahead. The desire and passion are absent, which can contribute to inadequate care.I want all licensed registered nurses to acquire a BSN to practice. This higher level of learning can enhance the level of the profession by enabling nurses to integrate research and theory into their level of practice. If all 50 states would enforce this law, you would see a change in the delivery of care for the better.

Right, because all those social workers and psychologists who spent 6 years in school only to make less than most ADNs and many LPNs CLEARLY made the best possible life choice.

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.

It's' not about the money for these people. Psychiatric social worker or psychologist with a nice private practice isn't anything to sneer at. AND they have a way nicer work environment than nurses.

This is so sad to see how nursing education is watered down to a level of pure incompetence. Nursing is the only profession that have such low educational standards for clinical practice. Teachers, social workers, psychologists etc, all have to obtain a master's degree to practice with their license. Speaking as a nursing professor, many of the students are using the profession as a tool, just to get ahead. The desire and passion are absent, which can contribute to inadequate care. I want all licensed registered nurses to acquire a BSN to practice. This higher level of learning can enhance the level of the profession by

enabling nurses to integrate research and theory into their levelof practice. If all 50 states would enforce this law, you would see a change in the delivery of care for the better.

So what are you saying? ADN RNs practice at a level of "pure incompetence"? I'm sure this is news to many ADNs working out there. I see you worked in med surg. I'm wondering how the ADNs and diploma nurses you've worked with would feel about this?thank God you where there to save their patients from such incompetence.

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.

Subee I don't understand why a potential employer would see finishing the same coursework in 3 years rather than 4 for would see it as a disadvantage. Isn't it possible it could indicate someone with self-discipline and a drive to succeed? If the 3 years indicated "corner-cutting" I could see your point, though.

Favflu's post - the bias and inconsistency reflected in it is exactly the kind of inaccurate and divisive propaganda from some faculty that perpetuates the us vs them mentality. The IOM report on the future of nursing gave apparently nothing but lip service to the idea of nursing education being a "seamless track". It shocks me that they continue to use words like "incompetent" and "uneducated" to describe those RNs who don't have a BSN.

Specializes in Med/surg, Quality & Risk.
So what are you saying? ADN RNs practice at a level of "pure incompetence"? I'm sure this is news to many ADNs working out there. I see you worked in med surg. I'm wondering how the ADNs and diploma nurses you've worked with would feel about this?thank God you where there to save their patients from such incompetence.

My thoughts exactly.

Specializes in Med/surg, Quality & Risk.
This is so sad to see how nursing education is watered down to a level of pure incompetence. Nursing is the only profession that have such low educational standards for clinical practice. Teachers, social workers, psychologists etc, all have to obtain a master's degree to practice with their license.

Teachers do not have to have a masters degree.

Also I'm just curious: Do any of these "professions" have to wipe butts as part of their job description? Do you think perhaps if part of my job is to put my fingers into the orifices of other people and break up poop, I don't really need a higher degree to do it? Think maybe we should leave the decision on getting a higher degree to the people who want to go do things other than getting barfed on?

So, if I am required to get a masters to wipe butts, do you think nurses will be perceived by the public as "professionals?" Or just a bunch of mid-waged dummies who were suckered into getting masters degrees to wipe butts?

Sure Bob, I'd LOVE to spend another 80K so I can work in a hospital and come home with fluids on my clothes! What prestige I'll gain! The public will FINALLY recognize me as a Very Smart Person!

Oh yeah, I forgot, I don't give a rip what "the public" thinks. Half of them don't even know what degree you'd have to have to be a nurse. Or care. They just want a clean butt, and a Coke.

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
This is so sad to see how nursing education is watered down to a level of pure incompetence. Nursing is the only profession that have such low educational standards for clinical practice.

*** Ya the problem with this statement is not only is it (deliberatly I am sure) insulting, but factualy inaccurate. I am an instructor in a hospital's Critical Care Nurse Residency Program. We hire both ADNs and BSN grads into the residency. We have been doing this for since 2005. Some graduate and make competent ICU nurses and some don't. We have been unable to predict who will and who will not be able to complete the high pressure program and be sucsesseful critical care nurses based on the nursing degree they come to us with. We have noticed that older grads with more life experience do better. The ADN grads tend to be older, as do the accelerated BSN grads. The traditional BSN grads have the highest drop out rate. Also BSN grads have the lowest number of completed contracts. For that reason BSN grads are no longer hired into the residency for the SICU, though they still are for PICU, NICU, MICU, ER & PACU.

I want all licensed registered nurses to acquire a BSN to practice.

*** Well you are certainly entiteled to your opinion.

Why do we not just require PhD's for all nurses? Then we could be addressed as "Doctor Nurse..." ;)

Seriously, it looks like some in Nursing are really trying to do some serious damage to the profession by requiring advanced degrees. Must be (at least where they are employed) there is a glut of nurses that will continue for the coming decades. When those calls for such requirements come from the "educators", a conclusion can be easily drawn.

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I don't think I ever implied that it wasn't a good idea. I'm just saying that it's not going to save anyone money because they're taking the same number of credits.

Depends on weather they can get a job after graduation. If they got a job in my hospital it would save them at least $65K in wages that would not be lost working the fourth years rather than being in school. In addition I would think it would save money barrowed for living expences, at least $25%.

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